new member model 19 questions
Hello,all.
I just joined this very informative board to try to get some help with a particular question regarding altec model 19 speakers.
After reading pretty thoroughly here, I was all set on the 19 until I saw pics of the crossover compared to pics of the valencia crossovers.
Yikes!
For a non-tech guy that was scary.
So for my questions:
Is the crossover in the model 19 a first order or second or what?
And does its apparent complexity compared to the valencia's simplicity make it a poor or less good choice for SE tube amps and/or the technically ignorant DIY-er?
I like the size and cabinet and apparent better build quality of the nineteen, but need the speaker that will work best with my 10 watt tube amp.
Should I stick with 19 or go valencia?
I know a lot of this has been addressed before, but I can't find the exact type or order of crossover in the 19.
Plus any subjective personal insights would be appreciated.
Thanks.
nobody else have any comments for Listener2?
Looks like it's a two way conversation on the 19's.
The 19's will be different than a single driver for sure. Especially in a large room, not that they really need a huge room to sound good in.
That's another misconception because they do near field with imaging very well but of course at lower volume levels.
I don't know where the idea came from that crossovers and multiple drivers are all bad because some of the best sounding speakers have xovers and more than one driver.
On paper you can point to this and that BUT in real life does it really sound bad?
While specs have there place, we listen to music, not square waves and all distortion does not sound bad.
If your able to overlook missing lower bass and upper treble then a single driver works.
The 19's upper and lower range extension isn't superior to some other speakers, it's the way it sounds in what it does do.
Without some treble boost they may sound kind of dull on top but more so then a single driver?
The published info shows that they start to roll off around 11-12KHZ so a few db boost at 20KHZ isn't unreasonable with a gentle slope up to 20KHZ.
You mentioned build quality a couple of times but I can't say that my Flamenco construction was inferior to that of the 19's so that confuses me somewhat. Just two different Altecs.
I think the engineering thought behind the 19 is far better and that makes it a better speaker to listen too.The B version of the woofer plus the larger format 802G HF driver with the phase plug certainly don't hurt either.
Cabinet wise there's no real heroics.
The woofer has more volume but some would argue that it's too much space for the 416B to work into and that retuning the port will lower the bass response.
That may very well be true BUT doing so may make the 19's sound like they have less bass. I like the peaks the way they are in my room. LOL
Coming from a single driver to a horn based upper range will no doubt be different but I don't find the 19's to be SHOUTY at all but I'm used to horns.
I found the Flamencos to be shouty until I was able to cut back on the 806 drivers by adding a tweeters. Before that it was difficult to get enough treble without honking up the midrange more but that's just my opinion.
Flat position on controls
The factory didn't provide a "flat" position so it could be that they felt the flatest response curve in a dead room is not flat in your listening room so user adjustable was the best way to go. Of course that's just my speculation. Does anyone really listen to flat?
Toms link to the PDF does help to see what's going on when you move the controls.
My understanding of the 19 xover is that the MF control regulates the overall volume of the HF driver and the HF control adjusts the point at which the higher frequencies are boosted by the compensating network.
I'm open to hear other opinions because it is somewhat confusing.
In my listening room and with my equipment I have both knobs set to where the white line pointer on each knob points to the T in Optimum but I do always use about 4db of treble boost at 20KHZ and it's a slow rise to 4db at 20KHZ.
Without the treble boost I don't find that turning the HF control fully clockwise brings up enough treble detail for me and when I use the treble boost I find that having the HF control fully clockwise sounds too thin and harsh to me.
From other posts I've seen it looks like most Model 19 users run them with the controls somewhere within the "optimum range."
All this assumes that the pots themselves have not turned in their mounting so that the pointer on the knobs do not reflect an incorrect position for the resistance they are set at.