4.1 system with jbl 4430s - crossover @ what?

Yeah, 4.1 - still looking for the a center channel, although I don't miss it that much most of the time. anyway.. I use the system more for movies than music, maybe 65 movies-35 music.

The jbls are obviously very capable speakers, but where would you cross them over to the subwoofer (an AV123 MFW-15)?

Aside from the "wherever they sound best" advice, could you venture thoughts on the benefits of various crossover points. I know that as the crossover point rises, there is increased chance of perceiving localization of some material. I ask because some of the newer subwoofers out there claim that their mid-bass performance is very good, but the jbls have some pretty good components in them.

I'm using an automated sub eq the anti-mode 8033, that'll work up to whatever crossover I choose.

(for the future, as time and money permits I think I might look into new charge-coupled crossovers for the front 4430s since they're supposed to be a significant upgrade)

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Originally Posted by moparfan

Yeah, 4.1 - still looking for the a center channel, although I don't miss it that much most of the time. anyway.. I use the system more for movies than music, maybe 65 movies-35 music.

The jbls are obviously very capable speakers, but where would you cross them over to the subwoofer (an AV123 MFW-15)?

Aside from the "wherever they sound best" advice, could you venture thoughts on the benefits of various crossover points. I ask because some of the newer subwoofers out there claim that their mid-bass performance is very good, but the jbls have some pretty good components in them.

I'm using an automated sub eq the anti-mode 8033, that'll work up to whatever crossover I choose.

(for the future, as time and money permits I think I might look into new charge-coupled crossovers for the front 4430s since they're supposed to be a significant upgrade)

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Run the 4430s full range as "big" and use the standard THX crossover frequency of 80 Hz. It's a done deal!

for some reason, some people say use small rather than large. I'm not sure why there should be a difference since the crossover still parses the music range. There is supposedly a difference in how the bass is handled.

Worth reading:

The Recording Academy's Producers & Engineers Wing,
Recommendations for Surround Sound Production

"Surround mixing should always be done on identical full range speakers of the same brand and model, plus a subwoofer." (page 3.3)
Why not at home?
____________
Peter

I would use the sub for LFE and set all the smaller surround speakers to small with what ever crossover setting you like best. I don't think your 4430s really need any sub help IMO. What receiver are you using?

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Originally Posted by moparfan

for some reason, some people say use small rather than large. I'm not sure why there should be a difference since the crossover still parses the music range. There is supposedly a difference in how the bass is handled.

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It will depend on the receiver/processor you are using. In most cases, I'd select large for a pair of 4430s. There is no harm in trying it out both ways and listening to each.

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Originally Posted by Hoerninger

"Surround mixing should always be done on identical full range speakers of the same brand and model, plus a subwoofer." (page 3.3)

Why not at home?

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I always try use three identical speakers up front.

I generally find center channel speakers are simply a way for manufacturers to charge a lot for one additional speaker. If possible identical rears are a good idea, but not entirely necessary... since money is almost always an issue, I think it is better to spend more on the front three and skimp a bit on the two or four surrounds...


Widget

Thanks for the link above.

I'm using a NHT Power5 ICE amplifier roughly 200 wpc to all channels.

I found this below, which suggests small for the reasons they state in the article.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/ge...s-made-simple/

and another:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/featu...equencies.html

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Originally Posted by maxwedge

I would use the sub for LFE and set all the smaller surround speakers to small with what ever crossover setting you like best. I don't think your 4430s really need any sub help IMO. What receiver are you using?

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Yeah but that will then divert the low end from LCRS into the sub bass and in my opinion longer becomes LFE.1 discrete because you’d have no clue what so ever what is LFE.1 discrete track. But why settle for my opinion.;)

I would have to agree with Maxwedge and make the L & R speakers small, cross the sub over at 80Hz. This way the mains dont have sub frequencies running to them and they will be able to reproduce the main frequencies better without the burden of trying to do 40 hz at the same time. The 4430 will go down that low but the 2235 in that application is doing quite a lot. :)

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Originally Posted by JBL 4645

Yeah but that will then divert the low end from LCRS into the sub bass and in my opinion longer becomes LFE.1 discrete because you’d have no clue what so ever what is LFE.1 discrete track. But why settle for my opinion.;)

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So then you'll have no clue what is in the LCRS tracks much under 50-60hz if your speakers are small and can't reproduce those frequencies well.:shock:

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Originally Posted by Allanvh5150

I would have to agree with Maxwedge and make the L & R speakers small, cross the sub over at 80Hz. This way the mains dont have sub frequencies running to them and they will be able to reproduce the main frequencies better without the burden of trying to do 40 hz at the same time. The 4430 will go down that low but the 2235 in that application is doing quite a lot. :)

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Actually I was not suggesting that. I think that the 4430s have good enough low frequency extension and don't need the benefit of a sub in a home theater application as a L&R spk. Just don't run the LFE to them at the same time. This is just an IMO..:blah:

BTW, I haven't heard them personally and just based my opinions from the spec sheets and what others have said about the JBL 4430.

And.....:xmas:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Widget

It will depend on the receiver/processor you are using. In most cases, I'd select large for a pair of 4430s. There is no harm in trying it out both ways and listening to each.

I always try use three identical speakers up front.

Widget

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I'll agree with Widget... having used the 4430's in HT personally..

I'll use the subwoofer with LEF...


One thing I noticed with the 4430's when crossing over each with their own sub ( two 2235's, each in their own 5CF box) when playing music is the the midrange inproved somewhat when crossed over around 80. Of course this was only because the 2235's in the 4430's are being used in just a long range.

In your case tho try both. If you're needing a center speaker consider something large like an E130 ( or any 15" midrange) and horn. Works great with the 4430's in HT just keep all horns on the same level if you can

In my (actually my wife's:)) HT, I leave my 4430's singing as "large" and run a single Tannoy PS 350 at 80 Hz. Works for us - in our room. But then, maybe y'all think I might be nuts, running a pair of SUB-1500's along with a pair of 4345's downstairs...:D

one more thumb uo for Widget.
it's really depends on bass management of you processor-receiver.
in any case - crossing them at 80HZ IMHO is redicolous.

i would try to mark them SMALL only if you can set low xover - say 40Hz.
if there no control at xover freq - then i would mark them LARGE.

BTW - in most "clever" proccessors if fronts are Large and SUB is present- then LFE is not sent to fronts.

LFE is generally a separate channel. Make your fronts large and you will have bottom end content in them. If you make them small then the additional bass frequencies, not LFE, will go to the LFE channel. It is generally sensible practice to pull the bottom end out of the fronts and run them to the sub if you have one. Your spekers will last longer and you can use a smaller amp to drive them. Hey, but thats just me.:)