http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/firstpic.JPG
this is my H2600 for my own S2600 - it is not finish !!!
greetings !
Matthias
Printable View
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/firstpic.JPG
this is my H2600 for my own S2600 - it is not finish !!!
greetings !
Matthias
Matthias, where is your location ??:)
Eckhard
i wrote my location in a other post
iam from Germany
oh i forget
this is the cabinet !
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/cabinet.JPG
greetings
Nice endeavor dude! :yes:
You must be some kind of maniac Matthias....:D Why not the S/3100 while you where at it ? Great job though... how the hell you managed the horn I'll never figure out. Are you planning to damp the horn?
More pics as you progress, please.
Bernard
ok if you intereste ok ! i will post more pics !
iam 20 (in two days 21) years old
i am a great jbl fan ive 4 lx 55
soon the s2600*g*
i made a cabinet maker ( Schreiner ) education
this year i go to school
then i will studie computer sience
first i made a dxf of the horn !
in vellum cad
than i made the templates
with mdf and putty (spachtelmasse)
then i sharp the Horn !
last week i bought one ME120HS
in the moment i order the crossover parts !
tomorrow i wil clean up my work room
and then the freetime is over :-)
i ve had two week s holidays next week the school starts again
if you want i can post more pics of the construction of the horn !
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/horn1.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/horn2.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/horn3.JPG
no i need several distances ( the red lines ! ) because i havent a S2600 at home ...
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s2600.jpg
greetings
sorry but ?
what did you mean ??? with :
Are you planning to damp the horn?
damp ?
greetings !
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/1.jpg
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/b1.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/b3.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/bild1.JPG
why the S2600 and not the S3100
because there is no space in my room at my parents house
the S2600 exactly fit in an edge ! :)
the S3100 is higher than the S2600 and doesnt fit in the edge !
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s2600i.JPG
In the first picture of the horn I though it was in fiberglass, thus the question, as I own the S/3100 and have had some thoughts of dampening/deadening the horn with lead or the like. I see though that you have made the horn from MDF and then will not need to address that question. Great work Matthias!!
21 yrs old, eh ? be intreresting to see what youi are doing 20 years from now :D
Bernard
Hello Bernhard !
ive a question !
ive Post a Pic of the S2600 with red lines !
this distance i need ... because ive no S2600 to messure...self
sorry for my poor english :-(
but the Midplate ! of the S2600
are there Holes in it ??? or is the Plate without any Holes !
to cut Low and High driver ?
which distance is from the top of the 2600 to this midplate ??
greetings
Matthias Asselborn
Wow that looks real nice!
Rob:)
Hi MatthiasQuote:
Originally Posted by MatthiasA
I own the 3100 not the 2600, so I don't think I can make any meaningfull measurments for you. Also, I do not understand your question. Do you mean inside of the cabinet ? If so, yes there is a 'plate' or we could say, a 'baffle' (?) that braces the cabinet at that point. I would need to take my bass driver out to tell you the exact location but as I recall it is just below the bottom edje of the horn. I don't think that this distance would be critical as it is not to separate the two drivers but rather, from the looks, just fo added bracing. The baffle, as I recall, is open all the way around except for perhaps a 2" border. For your information, there is also a MDF brace about 2" wide that runs up the both sides of the cabinet at about the mid-point. I can't tell from just sticking my hand inside the port how far they go up but - all the way to the top - or just to the bottom of the plate/baffle. Hope this helps.
Bernard
General dimensions for S2600 are (HxWXD) 984x559x406mm.
Your work is very impressive for a young (or old) man. You are doing such a beautiful job, it is a shame you are not building a Pair. Perhaps you will do a second one later,
Mrbluster
but ... i need anybody who give me the exact dimensions on the pic with the red lines
greetings
have nobody the s2600 ?
how old are you when you say i am young ... ;)
i think its a good time to build loundspeakers :)
i laught about all the people in my age
with no experience and knowledge :confused:
who build many cheap speaker :banghead:
they think the cheapest the best *lol*
i am very thank full about this forum !!!
its great !!!!
i think home and pro audio is the best and JBL is great !
i am searching for a amplifier for the S2600
i think about a Yamaha P3200 / P4500
oder a JBL MPA ???
greetings Matthias
Pics about the Crossover and the Horn adapter are soon available !
It reads to me that Matthias wants to know where to place the woofer, i.e., exact dimension of centerline of the driver from bottom and edges of the cabinet.
Matthias: It is unlikely that the "midplate" is solid, rather, just a brace. There would be little purpose in dividing the box into chambers since the horn/driver is solid.
Amplifier? JBL 6230. They sell on eBay for less than $150. Originally, they were $600 or more....
in the pdf of the S2600 the midplate looks like solid !
and in the pdf of the S3100 the midplate has many holes !
greetings
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s26.JPG
Yes, so it appears. Someone who has one may have to check to be sure, then, as you request....Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthiasA
here the s3100
you can see the hole in the midplate
and damping material near the horn !
greetings
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s31.JPG
just ive made the horn adapter
it isnt finished yet
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/ada1.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/ada2.JPG
Not finished yet ?? :blink: Just kidding..
For your info, I am 55 yrs old and counting. As for your need for that inside dimension for the sealed bass cab of your 2600 project I now understand your concern as it seems that the cab is closed to meet the tuning specifications. I suggest that you post a private message to some of the S/2600 owners on this forum and ask if they might do you the favour of opening up theirs and getting that spec for you. It should not be too difficult to do. If I am not mistaken, a couple of these owners are in Germany.
Good luck.
Bernard
Simply OUTSTANDING young man!!
@Bernhard !
ive sent several messages to german people too
but nobody knows the distance .... from the plate inside ... :(
greetings matthias
What I don't understand is that if the plate is in position how would you attach the driver/horn to the back of the cabinet ? I mean the first time when building, OK, just put the plate in after. But what about servicing them later? You would then need to take out the bass driver, then the plate and finally the horn? Sounds kind of strange to me.
As for those measurments - you may just need to guesstimate it. Too bad those folks in Germany won't do it for you. The 12'" bass driver cannot be that heavy to remove as the 15" is.
Bernard
in the back of the cabinet
there is a hole behind the the horn!
about 18 x 25 cm - i think its more than i need
to change the horndriver 2426H !!!
in this hole it is a ferrit brass in german "messing" plate
which close the hole !
with about 8 or 10 screws !
the plate is also painted !
greetings
That makes sense - but how would they have done it in the 'factory' 2600 I wonder. The reason I ask has to do with that 'plate' we have been talking about. You know, with the 3100 the plate is open and thus you can get your hand up in there- but if it is closed like the picture shows of the 2600 ... then what? I think you really do need to get someone out there to open it up and find out what is going on in there you.
Bernard
in the Orginal S2600 the Plate inside is solid !
and you can remove the Horn with 12 or more screws !
with the removing of the Horn you can change the Driver 2426H
and then you can screw the Horn back to the cabinet
in my S2600 the Horn will be solid on the cabinet ! nothing to screw
and i will make the ferrit plate in the back of the cabinet to change the 2426H
do you understand ?
greetings
but who can me give the height of the plate inside :(
Matthias - yes I understand , but the point I am trying to make is that in the S/3100 the 2426H is ATTACHED TO THE CABINET as well as the horn which means there must be a way to get at it. If the horn is separated from the bass in the 2600 with that plate, how would one undu the driver ? My point being that perhaps the drawing for the 2600 is incorrect ? Have you considered that ? Sure would be nice if someone could open one up for you.
Hope I'm not just confusing things for you :banghead:
Bernard
I understand you too
but i think the low driver in the S3100 needs more room
therefore the holes in the midplate !
and the ME120HS in the S2600 is seperately
because look at the drawings
the damping material ends with the plate (S2600)
iam not shure becaus ive no orginal S2600
you are right with the Driver !
behind the Horn there is a ferrit plate
which fixating the 2426H at the cabinet and the horn adapter !
i think you must get behind the driver.... to screw it out
but there is no space ??? hmmmmm
i dont know ?
therefore i need my plate behind the cabinet ....
to screw it out ...
now iam looking on the specsheet !
i think you can't take out the horn !
you can turn out the 12 screws which fixates the horn
but there are three BOLTs
to the driver trough the barketplate (the red thing) ??
and the barketplate is solid on the midplate in the cabinet (with two screws)
????
you are right Bernhard ! you cant take the bold out !!!
hmmmm
isn't the Midplate in the 2600 solid ??
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s2600.gif
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/h1.JPG
greetings
Well... looking at those pictures now it looks like the driver attaches to the plate. If you look at the 3100 and the 2600 you can see the bolt holes on the plate. Now that makes sense as how else would you get the driver out of the 2600 ? So... if thats true then it does allow for a solid plate on the 2600 and you are back to where you started from ! You still need to find the dimension for the bass box in order to fix the plate in the right place..... unless that is I talk myself into taking out my bass driver and finding out where the plate is in relation to the bottom of the horn.. that would be the same distance on both probably, no ?
Bernard
Looks to me like horn is bolted through the bracket to the driver.
If it were ME doing it, the foot of the bracket would have PEM nuts in it so as to permit attachment with screws from below the the dividing panel or "plate."
That's not what's shown, though. The screws are shown coming down from the top, i.e., from the bracket side.
If the panel is solid, I don't understand it. Gotta be access from somewhere....
Hi Ziilch - you got that right and thanks for the right terminology - PEM nut. There would be nothing to stop Matthias from welding a nut to that bracket and then bolting from below though would there ? Problem solved ! :applaud:
The only question left then is the correct position for that 'plate'. I don't know if the plate in the 3100 is in the the same position relative to the bottom of the horn though - and thus not a reliable measurment - as the bracket looks to be adjusable and thus may be positioned differently for the two speakers. HHmm.. what think you ?
Bernard
Hello,Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthiasA
i am not an expert for that cabinet, but i think you can unscrew the horn from the front and through the hole from the rear, right?
18 x 25cm (ca 7" x 9,8") should be enough to screw off the driver and than the horn, i think.
Best regards
Wolf
Hi Wolf - so you are saying that there is a hole in the back of the 2600 cabinet ? There is not on the 3200, so this would explain the solid baffle/plate in the 2600 then. Do you have a 2600 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
Bernard
STOP
in my SELFMADE !!! S2600 i will do a plate like 25x18cm
i think there is NO !!! plate in the orginal S2600 !!! or S3100
sorry i dont understand you !
what the hell is a PEM nut ?????
can you explain how does it works ??????
how can you get out the horn ????
with a solid plate ?
isn t it solid ?
sorry...
greetings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard Wolf
oh cool can you do it for me ?
the lengt in the Horn section will be the same lengt in S2600 and S3200 i think !!
because the Horn is the same !!!!
please let me know the lengt !
and the strengt of the plate (barkets) (25mm) ?
This is starting to get confusing, no :blink:? The 'plate' I am taliking about is the divider between the Horn/Bass compartments, and YES, there is one there as you can see in the drawings. The bracket that helps to hold the weight of the driver is bolted to this 'plate'. A PEM nut is a nut that is permanently affixed to the bottom of a 90 degree angle for the bolt to go through. In your case this could be from the bottom of the closed 'plate'. In other words from the bass compartment.Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthiasA
Why do you now think that there is no 'plate'? And what would your 25x18 cm plate do? It would not seal the cabinet.
Bernard
I may do it but not to-day! Why do you want the length - it is the same horn in both the 3100 and 2600. What you would want is the distance from the bottom of the front of the horn to the 'plate', no?Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthiasA
As for the bracket, can you not get this from JBL?
Bernard
ive told you about my metal plate behind the cabinet
the plate is to change the driver ! because my horn is fixed at the cabinet ! no screws !
then i need this metal plate !
Bernhard:
I am taliking about is the divider between the Horn/Bass compartments, and YES, there is one there as you can see in the drawings.
ok in the S2600 it is one plate ! ok ! with no holes in it ? :D
can you say me the distance from your S3200 from
this divider between the Horn/Bass compartments
to the ceiling ?
becaus this lenght is the same in S2600 / S3200
this lengt ( red line ) i need
i think it is the same (s2600/3100)
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/Unbenannt.gif
I will try to get you this measurment by the week-end. But how will you put the plate in? Does the top of your cabinet come off?
Bernard
BTW - that is height, not length.Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthiasA
Bernard
if i have the messures i will finish :-) the box :-)
now i have the adapter ! (selfmade)
and the low driver will arrive tomorrow
the crossover will be finished tomorrow
greetings
PEM is a brand of captive or "self-clinching" nuts:
http://www.pennfast.com/fastening_pr...&df=next&sp=16
http://www.pennfast.com/cad_library/graphics/s.gif
sorry ....sure.... i ment the height :bouncy:
OK Here we go with the points of the Dutch jury.
Take note: all measurements are in cm and of the left speaker (so mirror it if it's for the right one)
Bottom cabinet- center woofer: 34,5
Center woofer- Left side of cabinet: 32,5
Center woofer- Right side of cabinet: 24
Bottom cabinet- center of reflexpipe: 11,5
center of reflexpipe- left side of cabinet: 19,2
Upperside woofer- bottom of horn: 22
space on right side of the horn: 2
space on left side of the horn: 10
diameter reflexpipe: 11
length of reflexpipe: 14
Left woofer - right woofer : 320 :D
Good luck
:applaud: :applaud:
yeah very good yob !!!!
finally i need the height of the divider between the Horn/Bass :(
greetings !
Can you be more specific. Don't understand.:o
Take note: bottom of cabinet is not to the ground, but like the red line on your picture.
Hi Peterr,
Matthias is referring to the board inside the S2600 dividing the enclosure into 2 parts. It is located above the woofer and below the horn, and Matthias wishes to know its exact location.
De groetjes van Kopenhagen
thank you :-) Jan !
exactly !
the location of the midplate i need !
I'm afraid i can't help you at short notice. Have to take out the horn of woofer to see that. It will happen in the near future (some ajustments to the filter and removing the mesh in the horn), but not the next few weeks i'm afraid.
I think you have two questions
a. Is the board solid?
b. What is the exact location?
Question a. i could ask a friend of mine who took the 2600 apart in the past. for b. you have to have some patience. Sorry.
oh.. ok !
H Peterr - I see that you plan on removing the horn throat mesh. What is your reasoning on that? I once asked the question here and was told by most to just leave it alone. Comments like it was made to be used that way to what if a bug decides to take up residence inside the compression driver ! What think you ? As I will be taking my horn out today or tomorrow I would like to have your thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterr
Thanks - Bernard
PS - Mattias, if your listening, hope to have that measurment for you in a day or two.
Ok Matthias, here is the measurment. 15 5/8 " or 39.7 mm. I hope this is the same for the 2600 as the 3200. I was surprised to see that the back of the horn does have a thin layer of dampenig material sprayed on. I will be adding to it. Also, you might want to know that there are some braces running down both sides of the cab all the way to the top. If I had thought of bringing my digital camera home I might have gotten a pic for you.. but as it is I might have to close them up before I can get a pic for you. Tell me if you wish to know more about these braces.
Good luck
Bernard
oh thank you very much ! i think you meant 397mm or 39,7 cm !
is this the height of the cabinet in which is the horn placed ?
i think i dont need damping material ! because the mdf
greetings
Yes - 397mm. This the exact hieght from the inside top of the cab to the top of the dividing panel. Hope it is the same in the 2600! I am dampening my horn to isolate it from the back pressure wave/vibration of the bass driver. Don't think you will need that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthiasA
Good Luck and let us see your progress.
Bernard
Hi Bernard,
- Are you now stating that the 3100 has a dividing panel in it that actually divides the enclosure into two separate air-tight compartments ?Quote:
Yes - 397mm. This the exact hieght from the inside top of the cab to the top of the dividing panel.
- Or are you stating that your given measurement is down to the "brace" that the 3100s' horn/driver/bracket mounts onto ?
<. Earl K
PS ; I realize that you are likely using "mental-shorthand" ( assumed meanings ) for those ( like MatthiasA ) who have followed this thread from the beginning - the problem arises when others jump into the mddle of the conversation .
[QUOTE=Earl K]Hi Bernard,
- Are you now stating that the 3100 has a dividing panel in it that actually divides the enclosure into two separate air-tight compartments ?
- Or are you stating that your given measurement is down to the "brace" that the 3100s' horn/driver/bracket mounts onto ?
<. Earl K
Hi Earl - no, I thought we had cleared that up before, but as per the enclosure diagrams posted in this thread the 3100 is as you say ''braced'" and is open and thus not a separate compartment as in the 2600. Thus my desire to dampen the horn. Thanks for helping to keep us on our toes :) The measurment is down to the brace/divider.
Bernard
is A 397mm ? inside the cab ? in the horn section
greetings
Matthias Asselborn
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s23.bmp
Matthias - obviously it is "A' as I have the 3200..... "B" would not help you at all.:blink:... don't blame you for double checking though :applaud:..... just remember though that I have no way of knowing if that is the same measurment as the S/2600.
Bernard
ok :-)
thanks a lot !
i will put in a solid plate ! i think its ok !
with the height of 1" 25,5mm
The plate in the 3100 is 3/4" and plywood... believe it or not !Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthiasA
Bernard
now its finished
ive all messures ! thanks a lot :-)
now i can do it for me in reality :-)
greetings Matthias Asselborn
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s2600ia.JPG
Nice Drawing MatthiasA :yes:
- What is the internal volume of the bottom compartment housing the ME120h ?
- Before moving on with your construction plans, I recommend that you run some "Tuning Simulations" using your newly acquired information .
regards <. Earl K
how can i run simulations ?
ive nt a jbl speaker simulation program
ive only the SPEAKER PRO v.6 from Visaton
iam looking of the TSP from the ME120HS woofer
then i can simulate it ! with the crossover
but i can't calculate the angel side in the simulation with my program
Hi
(A) Use these TS parameters;
Fs 30.99 Hz
Re 5.51 ohms
Qms 8.04
Qes 0.28
Qts 0.27
Le 1.12 mH
Vas 4.02 cu. ft.
Mms 2.99 oz
Cms 54.47 in/lb
Bl 18.10 tesla
SPLref 92.7 dB "
- these were provided to the forum by mrbluster .
<. Earl K
i will calc the volume and simulate the bass
and i will check the whole spectrum with my selfmade
crossover !
i will post pics in about 2 hours !
greetings !
the ground is 12,42 dmē
exactly 12,42153502 dmē
the indoor height is 468mm of woofer cabinet
the Volume is about 58 liters
exactly 58,13278391 liters
without any damping material
(1) I think your horn location may be a little low. In looking at the posted pics for the S3100 & the S2600, the horn in the S2600 appears to be located a little higher towards the top of the box.
no its the right location !
from the left 10 cm from the right 19mm
and the horn self is 44cm
and this is 44+1,9+10 = 559 mm and this is the exact dimension from the orginal S2600
in the height
the horn is 38mm unter the top plate !
the top and the ground plate (stand plate) is 22mm !
the divider has a height of 397mm ?
this is the height from Bernhard !
- You need "Peterr" to give you a measurement that will more clearly locate the bottom of the horn.
- I would suggest either;
(i) from the bottom of the box ( not including stand ) up to the bottom of the horn .
(ii) or from the top of the box down to the bottom of the horn.
its about 38mm !
(2) I fear you have located the internal divider in the wrong position. It looks
too low to my eyes.
yes you are right but bernhard give me the messures .... of 397 mm
but my plate is 25mm 1"
and bernhards only 3/4"
but i think its too small ! (3/4")
Now, the 58 litres volume for the woofer compartment is workable but it's a bit smaller than what I was expecting.
I was expecting @ 73 litres .
why ??
- Also, If you look at the picture of the H2600 with the "bracket", it just doesn't look like it has enough height to reach down to where you have placed that divider .
well... but i can't messure the divider ?
bernhard told me the height
- Again, I wouldn't install that divider until you get more accurate measurements from Peterr.
.......
(i) You need the inside height dimensions of the compartment that houses the woofer . I'd be very wary about trying to accurately locate that divider from the top down. Why ? Your box and the JBL box may have different thicknesses of the top-plate -
hmm the orginal has 22 mm and my plate too !
especially if you doubled up the thickness of the wood ( which is the way your drawing looks ).
can you say me the exact thickness ??
greetings matthias
i need exactly messures from peter !!!!
please peter can you say me is the divider bracket or solid ?
which height ??? :-)
greetings matthias
i neet the MMD (membrane mass) from the ME120HS too
and the membrane surface SD
Look at driver parameter, need Fs and Xmax.
are these the right parameter ?
i thought fs is 30,99hz ?
the VAS = 113,83 -> 114 liters :-)
please can you simulate this with a volume of 58liter
a tube with 11cm diameter and the leght of 130mm
Yes, Fs is wrong. Wait a few minutes.
sorry port tube is 11cm diameter and 140mm lenght !
now ive the jbl speaker shop enclosed , crossover module
Compared to the first one. Sim is without any loss from enclosure or so.
Maybe you will not get this low response. Red is Box standing on ground, wall behind. Green is in corner.
'Kevin Garrett give you a copy too? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthiasA
John
As you can see, port has to be a little bit longer, maybe 3-5cm. Than you will get flat response.
Eckhard
hmm are you simulating a horn ?
the ME120HS is in a Vented Cabinet !
greetings !
hmm i cant handle the jbl speaker shop !
i will delete it
now i will try simulation with my orginal visaton speaker pro
but i need the
CMS and the RMS ,Xmax SD and nom impedance
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthiasA
now ive the jbl speaker shop enclosed , crossover module
'Kevin Garrett give you a copy too? http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/i...s/rolleyes.gif
John
no..... i found the zip file on this web page !
http://www.byminsk.com/jbl_speakershop.htm
http://www.avtozvuk.com/infores/soft/jblspkrshp.zip
but if its illegal i will delete it !
greetings
Here is the frequency response of the original S2600:
No, this is not a Hornsim, it`s a Reflex. Can`t explain it here.
Eckhard
ok by the way here s a pic of my adapter !
Sorry, sim was made with a crossover. Here is the new one with the new port length. Port area is 10 x 9.5cm and length is 30cm.
Eckhard
oh its a very big port
can you make a new simulation
with the crossover
a port leght of 13cm and diameter of 11cm
now ive simulated the ME120HS in the orginal Cabinet
without the Crossover
when i give the Parts in the Crossover Section
there are no changes in the graph ??
can anybody help me
its BassBox Version 6
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/1.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/2.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/3.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/4.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/5.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/6.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/7.JPG
now with crossover !
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/8.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/9.JPG
but why is the graph so flat after 950hz ??
First of all, all the commas are driving me nuts! They are periods. :p
2.2 and not 2,2 :D I guess it must be a Continental thing. ;)
sorry
i can't replace the commas by points !
the programm made commas by self !
if i put 2.2 in the gab the software made 22, !
i have to put 2,2 in !
How interesting!
Here's what I got straight from the Engineering Design Specification for the ME120H. For some reason the guy that did both the ME120H and ME150H didn't run the parameters AFTER break-in. :banghead: The after break-in Fs is 29 Hz.
?? do you also have the BassBoxPro 6 ?
in my pic ! there are commas !
I've seen the commas used before, I just didn't know HT had a version like that. Maybe it's in the preferences or something.
Take CP2 (0.01) out and see if that fixes your problem.
Try the resistor in RP2 instead of REQ.
now ive get rid of 0,01ĩf
and the 41ohms are on RP2
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/10.JPG
this is with the port tube !! leght 14cm and diameter 11cm
Ok