Quick & Dirty 4430-Inspired Two-Ways Part II

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02-06-2006, 10:01 PM
B&KMan

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are you a real DYE man ???

Hi again.

Zilchermania Dyer !!! I have a real interresting DYE project for you …

In regards of complexe modulus and damping factor; I offer small experiences for you. :)

(anothers yuk yuk yuk ) :applaud:

If you agree:

Peel off completely the damping stuff on one horn.
Build a wood box (any mdf or same is ok)) where the motor is out of the box but all horn is inside.

Yes oh yes. Fill the entire box with sand! :D

And finally put 2 hard feets on front floor box and one in centre back.

Keeps measure of each impulse test is the best way in this aspect....

and compare audio test response by your ear (especially play cymbal or any instrumental piece with rich harmonically in hi-frq.)

More???
Fill box with silice white sand in box… difference (filter pool sand)???

More ???

Add a maximum sand silice to paris plaster and fill the box….

(The plaster is easy remove)

Post your comment.

this is 3 excellent way of the structural damping for low money with out hi-tech instrumentation.

:cheers:
02-06-2006, 10:05 PM
Zilch

Quote:

Originally Posted by B&KMan

in fact structurally damping is really better approach than visco damping so never good cie go in the way of visco damping.

Thank you, Jean!

Is it possible to structurally dampen the horn itself, such as this one, without mounting it in or on a structure?

[How'd I KNOW it was gonna be SAND? :p ]
02-06-2006, 10:22 PM
B&KMan

Search and DYe damping structural Horn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilch

Thank you, Jean!
Is it possible to structurally dampen the horn itself, such as this one, without mounting it on a structure?

-----------

Well of course the JBL aquaplas is a response of this but it is a instrument approch for just good blend for the resonnance horn....

other approarch is a big massif layers woods same a beautifuf horn tad in 4001 speaker.

or synthetic polymer include internal damping control.
the beautiful pseudo-crystal horn of k2 generation is excellent exemple.

-------------

For DYe the box fill up is better easy approarch but if you feel indiana jones... put a blend of epoxy with silice sand.(one way approarch) the hardener and mass coupling result to cancellation of material resonnance and probably not displacement of the critical resonnace. but it is dirt and maybe not safe way for good result.

the rule is harder as possible and aproximatively same weight. the glue is hardener as possible.

so maybe just put small different stripe of metal, silice sand & epoxy, paris plaster, etc... at this point you are the cookMaster...

:cheers:
02-06-2006, 10:29 PM
Zilch

Many good ideas to try!

"Measure first, listen after...."
:cheers:
02-06-2006, 10:36 PM
B&KMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilch

Many good ideas to try!

:cheers:

OK DOKAY

the horn is reacting same as bell : if you do not control the mouth exoust by with wood the damping material is really thick and high weight...

just remember the final rule the control resonnance is impossible at low surface,

so better you cover entire exterior horn beter the result control with out leak resonnance.

but for first try just put plaster- sand and maybe big surprise....

let me know your experience result BEFORE and after....

for this this test it is essential to play music not just pink noise or impulse noise...

:cheers:
02-08-2006, 07:55 PM
Zilch

Quote:

Originally Posted by B&KMan

At this point you are the cookMaster....

I'm thinkin' stucco. Just gotta figure out how to make it stick. :p

O.K., O.K., Sonoglas then....

[Re-reading this...]

Jean, you are a friggin' TRIP!

I LOVE ya, B&K Man ---

Thanks for helpin' out here. :thmbsup:
02-08-2006, 11:27 PM
B&KMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilch

I'm thinkin' stucco. Just gotta figure out how to make it stick. :p

O.K., O.K., Sonoglas then....

[Re-reading this...]

Jean, you are a friggin' TRIP!

I LOVE ya, B&K Man ---

Thanks for helpin' out here. :thmbsup:

Welcome...

consider any pure material have a specific signature resonnace so better blend : probably better cancellation resonnance.... so maybe add sand into stucco... for less liquid and more mass... and mixte material....

Enjoy!!

but explain for the rest of member what is difference and what exactly upgrade if compare to asphalt...

:cheers:
02-08-2006, 11:32 PM
B&KMan

and finnaly remember more hardener layer cake more fast transient !!!

the stucco is hard but many other material is more hard.

I'm feeling the paris plaster have more density (less porosity) than stucco.

so I have feeling plaster paris with additive silice sand is better improvement...

AH the pleasure to cooking...

:cheers:
02-11-2006, 03:21 PM
Zilch

2 Attachment(s)

L55 Final Iteration

Retuned and inverted L55's with LE14H-3 become "Mini-Everests" when mated with H3100 defined coverage horns and rotated 30° to align the drivers.

LE85's with newly installed D8R2421 diaphragms drive the M/HF, here actively crossed (800 Hz) and EQ'd. Note the protection cap (47 uF Solen) on the LE85 input.

LE14A's in Citation 7.4 boxes provide the little-needed subwoofing.

[Everest came with optional sub, too.... ;) ]

All right, then, tell the Zilchster why these sound SO friggin' good.... :p
02-11-2006, 03:44 PM
Hamilton

Zipper, you got any 175s coming up in the future?
02-11-2006, 03:50 PM
Zilch

Hi, Hamilton.

Yup. I have to break some out to test with Toddalin's DIY crossovers and HL91, so I'll try them on some CD horns, as well. :thmbsup:

Gonna work fine, I'm bettin', tho I don't know what kinda HF extension they have....
02-12-2006, 03:42 PM
Zilch

2 Attachment(s)

Family Snapshot and Final Exam:

Match the systems to the list.

One channel only shown.

All are detailed in this thread.

Extra credit for matching up the crossovers (front) too.... :p

[Keepers, all....]
02-12-2006, 03:49 PM
Robh3606

I see an L100!! Does that mean I get extra credit????

Sure you have enough stuff there??!!! So which is your favorite??? Which one comes closest to capturing what a 4430 sounds like???

Rob:)
02-12-2006, 04:20 PM
Zilch

Hi, Rob. :D

The Q&D 4430 made from B380 with N3134 crossover captures the 4430 well. It's more like a clone, actually. 2344A horn is essential.

Everything else is, well, "different."

The Mega system with 2435HPL on 2352 is transcendent, though I haven't listened to them recently. I'm gonna do that while breaking down the "portrait" setup.

I'm really hooked on the H3100 "locked image" thing. Now that the LE85's with D8R2421 are working well, it's gonna be them on the lowboy B380's. Gotta do final tweaks on the crossovers yet.

I have a smaller defined directivity horn that works well with the L55 cabinets, too, not shown 'cause it's not JBL. That combo is very near the top preference here, for a small system. LE14A's are nice subs with it in Citation 7.4 boxes.

The L200's with the PT-F1010 horns installed are a continuing favorite, though I may try swapping other drivers in there. 2420 or LE85 with original aluminum diaphragms beat out the titaniums for sounding sweetly; the BMS re-entrant mylars are really nice, too.

All of these are good. Two-ways according to the 4430 forumula are WAY fun! :thmbsup:

[Them L100's are PERSISTENT little buggers, aren't they?]

Edit: Yup. Mega's absolutely transcendent. I don't understand how those big horns can make VHF so effortlessly, but they do. 2435HPL is padded down 4.5 dB to balance with 2235H using this crossover; not biamped.

And you KNOW how nice 2235H is playing in these 5 cuft. boxes. I've been meaning to put 2431H's on the horns for comparison of HF performance. May just get to that this week....
02-14-2006, 11:48 AM
Zilch

Does this all make sense yet?

The formula:

1) Extended bass woofer with midrange capability,
2) Compression driver with extended high frequency range,
3) Controlled directivity horn/waveguide,
4) Crossover with the requisite compensation and HF boost.

[Tune to taste.... :D ]

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