846U Valencia X-Overs...do they look okay?

I was rotating my woofers and while I was about it, I took a picture of each crossover.

I was wondering if I could get some technical advice and can someone let me know if they look alright or should I "update" them.

I have been reeling back and forth this past couple weeks about if I should change the crossovers.

Should I? Do they look like they are in need of an update, or should I leave them alone?

Thank you for all of your help.

I appreciate the technical advice of all you guys - because I have no clue about these things.

:blink:

Pictures below.

-Storm.

i didnt realize how simple the xover in there is.

it will take you 5 min with a soldering iron to samp out those caps. because you only have 2 to swap it wont break the bank to go with some nicer caps.

I think you really need to see what your speakers can do with a nice amp to be honest. you are short changing yourself if you dont use something nice.

problem with that is that depending on the cap he choses, it may be better...

but it also may be detrimental.....

and price isn't necessarily the key to a "good cap" for his purposes...

different caps can flavor the sound differently, right?

Rolling high end caps can get expensive too...... I sugest if he wants to go that route, that he find a local tech that specialzes in ancient audio gear (and their original "voicing"), and have him do the work -- if he wants it done....



and I agree on getting a better amp, if the one Storm is currently using is not up to par...

:dont-know:

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Originally Posted by louped garouv

and I agree on getting a better amp, if the one Storm is currently using is not up to par...
:dont-know:

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After years of using decent receivers, I recently upgraded to amp/preamp ....yes there is a difference, although it can be subtle. In my case it meant cleaner low end response (thats where the power is needed, .... LF )

personally i prefer an amp pre amp set up.i used to go thru an old hk 560 pre out into a dynaco 410.when i found some cash i bought an audio research sp 6a and the difference was mind blowing

"All your bass (base) are belong to us"

Seawolf,

Yet another quote/signature that got my attention. I have seen something like this on another web site, LightReading. Are you also a networking geek? Very strange. Perhaps this was an Internet favorite?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97

After years of using decent receivers, I recently upgraded to amp/preamp ....yes there is a difference, although it can be subtle. In my case it meant cleaner low end response (thats where the power is needed, .... LF )

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A integrated amp or receiver with a well built power supply and large caps with a dual mono design (separate components for each channel) has always sounded just as good to me.. But I agree, for the most part, that separates are better as the power supplies have to be kept separate as they're in separate boxes :). You can find an integrated amp or even receiver that will work just as good, but they are a bit harder to find and normally they are only the higher end more expensive models ..

The good thing about having a GREAT pre-amp is that you KNOW what you'll get and that you can swap in and out different amps to listen for differences and find the "right" amp for your application (speakers/room acoustics). Once you got the RIGHT pre-amp you've won 90% of the battle. It took me over 30 tries till I found one that was acoustically transparent and identical to running my CD player directly into an amplifier. Unfortunately many pre-amps, including Hi-End gear like Mark Levinson and Conrad Johnson, all tend to add some colorations (whether intended or not) and a unique sonic character. The amp "amplifies" what the pre-amp is sending to it and enhances these colorations, which is why the pre-amp is much more integral to the resultant sound.. Some may like these colorations, but thats up for you to decide. Its just a matter of finding a pre that works best for you. Once you have decided on a pre, you can audition amps to "dial-in" your speakers to your room..


Storm< As some members here have mentioned upgrading to "newer" caps may alter the resultant sound taking away some of the signature sound that you've been used to. You can rest assured that they will probably wind up sounding "better", but they may or may not be better to you with replacements. Whenever I do anything to the crossovers I keep the stock ones 100% in tact and build new networks. That way you can always swap them back in if you're not satisfied.

You keep coming back to the same thing over and over, you never seem to be happy with what you have, and then when people try to make suggestions you "claim" that you are happy with them. Its ultimately up to you to decide what to do, but based on ALL your posts in regards to these speakers and how much you presently enjoy them, you should leave them alone. Its no bigge for us to look at your networks, and for the most part we're all happy to see another set of networks. If something was wrong you may have HAD to do some upgrading. It doesn't seem to be the case. I wouldn't have even pulled the woofers if I were you unless your curious to see what's under there. Although you did run into a gooey mess along the way... And no, I don't know what that is, I'm assumig just a sealant/preservative of sorts and you need not remove it as long as its not affecting the sound. I'm sure it was put there for a reason.

The old saying goes, "if it aint broke, don't fix it" rings true here. As I said and a couple others as well, the networks look ok, and as long as they are operating properly and you don't notice any buzzing or popping, you should be okay. If you are worried about damaging your speakers or want something that's more reliable to have "peace of mind" have someone with expertise with Altec to build you new networks based on the factory schematics with components that will most closely match what you currently have.

I honestly think that its virtually impossible to get them to sound exactly the same as the newer filters are more advanced and made of slightly different materials, but you can get them really, really close, and if anything improve what you already have.. If you are wanting to "alter" the networks you will in fact "alter" the resultant sound of the speakers themselves, and if you don't know what you are doing or what you are trying to achieve, you can do more harm than good... I am speaking from experience here. I've screwed up many times thinking I could make them sound better by altering the networks..

I'll say it again. You like these speakers EXACTLY the way they sound. Why change them?? They are meant to be enjoyed and I hope you continue to enjoy them exactly as they are.. Should you wish to look into upgrading the networks, you have come to the right place and we can guide you along.. Good luck, and be sure to rotate your woofers every 5,000 songs from now on :). Your definitely not rotating them often enough see all that sludge that's building up around the woofers ;).. I saw your speakers pulling to the right a little, you might need an alignment too...

Its a reference to computer game that was very badly translated into English ... see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_you...e_belong_to_us

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Originally Posted by KJ Hall

"All your bass (base) are belong to us"

Seawolf,

Yet another quote/signature that got my attention. I have seen something like this on another web site, LightReading. Are you also a networking geek? Very strange. Perhaps this was an Internet favorite?

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Geez, I hope they dinna grab the stripers.... ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KJ Hall

"All your bass (base) are belong to us"

Seawolf,

Yet another quote/signature that got my attention. I have seen something like this on another web site, LightReading. Are you also a networking geek? Very strange. Perhaps this was an Internet favorite?

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sorry for the delayed reply...I was on an audio shopping safari..can not divulge results or prices as I wud be accused of lying.

>>Are you also a networking geek?

I retired after time at Intel and a backbone provider 4 years ago...

of course I modded for bass.

the OFFICIAL video is here...

http://allyourbase.planettribes.game...eo1_view.shtml

Well Storm, I sort of agree with what Nightbrace said but with some variation. Speakers as efficient as the Altecs don't demand a lot of power or current and there aren't wild impedance swings like some speakers that can dip to 2 ohms sucking the life out of most tube and SS amps. The electronics are important but not as important as with some speakers. Even a nice old Scott 299 tube integrated amp at 12 watts per channel would be fine with the Valencias if you weren't looking for lots of boosted bass or disco sound levels. I normally don't like SS electronics so I was amazed to find that my 19's sounded good with tubes and transistors so that choice is probably more personal. Seeing that your Valencias are the newer 8 ohm versions there's no real good reason for tubes unless you feel better with them. Maybe "garbage in, garbage out" is the best advice here but I suppose we all have a different definition of garbage. Nightbrace is correct that once the caps are replaced there most likely will be a change in the sound of the higher frequencies but I wouldn't really call what is heard now, with the old caps, a "signature sound" soley due to the caps. Do the caps sound the same now as they did when they were new? I don't think anyone can honestly answer that. Maybe close but the same? Then how about the old well used woofer cones and old 806A diaphrams? Is the magnetic flux in the drivers the same as when new? Bet those drivers don't test exactly like they did when new. I really doubt that Altec back then chose caps just for their sonic quality. That was before "boutique caps" and high end audio. A cap was cap more or less. Even the Model 19 xover is dubious in design and parts and those were expensive speakers but that's what most other companies were doing so it was normal back then. Callins was a US (TN) cap company and their prices were reasonable so I tend to think the choice had more to do with, size, price and availability. If Altec wanted a tamer sound they probably would have gone to the more expensive metal cased paper in oil caps to capture a certain "signature sound." Besides, horns were always on the bold side and those caps didn't take away from that. Unlike today where people want tame horns! All speakers are "colored" so pick the coloration you like best. You can leave well enough alone but how long will it be before the original caps die? Maybe a day or maybe 20 years but at what distortion level will they run at in the meantime? If your prepared for the possibility of trying maybe 2 or 3 different caps to get the sound you now like, then go for it. Most likely the Daytons or Bennics will be close and maybe the Clarity Cap, but not the expensive version, will be very close or even better sounding than the original caps. I'd say leave the pots and inductors alone or your going to open two more cans of worms. You can leave the original caps in place by cutting one lead of each close to the terminal it's soldered to. If you get disgusted with new caps the old ones can always be soldered back into the circuit. I once made all new xovers for my Flamencos with "better" parts and I didn't like the sound so I ended up just replacing the caps and that worked out very well. I have a suspicion that the original inductors aren't always per the schematic values but I have yet to verify that. I played with the inductors in my 19's and I have mixed feelings about the differenencs between the "better" ones and the originals. That's going to take some breadboard type xovers ouside of the cabinets to figure out. There's no question that the new caps were an improvement. The originals didn't age well because there was a considerable amount of muddy distortion along with the music. I ended up with metalized polyprops (MPP-1) from F-Dyne (southern electronics) in CA but they aren't easy to get because of a $50 min order and small quantity involved. Those were the caps that worked so well in my Flamencos too. I know that Solens screamed in my 19's, ouch, and that NOS Mallory paper in oils tamed my added EV tweeters way too much for my sonic taste. I'd also say not to play with new caps until you settle on what electronics you will be using. What I try to keep in mind is that what I hear and like may not be acceptable to everyone but I'm the one that needs to be happy with my stereo. And that parts prices don't mean all that much in actual listening. Most of the time I prefer cheaper caps over the crazy expensive ones and so did a bunch of "golden ear" types when I once covered the names on 5 caps and told them to pick the ones they liked the best in the tweeter circuits in a pair of $55,000 speakers. They choose the $3 and $5 caps over the more expensive ones up to $55 each. Oppps! LOL
Last but not least. All distortion doesn't sound bad and all aren't sensitive to the same distortions so specs are rough guides, not a sonic absolute.

Dave

Someone didn't get the paragraph memo...lol

Great information but, man, that was a hard read! :blink:

I still find it funny that from talking with Bill at GPA about his preference of amps for Altecs....his preference isn't tube. It's SS. He doesn't buy into all the foo-foo stuff that's out there. I really don't either. Lifting wires off the floor so the carpet doesn't "interfere", etc. OMG...gimme a break. Oh well, if someone will build it, someone will buy it.

Yeah I know. After I submitted the darn post and saw it I though of Tom Brennans wrath and I wanted to hide. Oh well. That's one post he'll probably skip right over anyway.
Sorry Tom. I'm probably too old to teach but my mind is more in gear with this post. LOL
Because Bill doesn't care for tube amps it doesn't mean that they are wrong for Altecs. Where did the the theaters get SS amps back when VOT were young?
Didn't I also read here and maybe a post from you that he also liked soft dome tweeters? Well that ain't no horn.
The tube versus the SS thing will go on forever and get nowhere because it's a personal thing but I still think the Altecs are less critical to the amp then lots of other speakers.
I hate to get into the "factory voicing" of speakers for tube and SS so I'll leave that to the people that dwell on that subject over and over.
In my opinion the higher power SS stuff may add more bass slam but if it's boosted bass, is it real bass or just pumped up bass?
Or if you bi-map with SS on the woofer with little to no boost you may get a tighter bass but is it more natural sounding than a more relaxed bass?
That might be another topic.
I cringe when people say that tubes are more mellow because if they are there's probably something wrong with the equipment.
More mellow than a lousy, screechy SS amp yes, but more mellow than a good SS amp is the clue something may be wrong.
In some cases like SET stuff, there might be a "triode" sound that has a warmer kind of sound but it shouldn't sound like it's rolled off in the top end and just mellow.
If your a meter reader then almost all of the SS stuff will look better on paper than "vintage" tube stuff but how do they sound? Ever hear a Dyna Stereo 120?
I bought a factroy wired new one many years ago based on specs and my kit tubed Stereo 70 sounded light years better.
I called Dynaco in PA and an engineer referred to the 120 as having "rabbit fur highs." Still not sure what that means but I knew it meant that the tube Stereo 70 was better sounding in the mids and highs and they knew it.

Dave

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Originally Posted by DaveV

All speakers are "colored" so pick the coloration you like best.

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Well, there's "coloration,"

... and then, there's "adulteration." ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Storm

I was wondering if I could get some technical advice and can someone let me know if they look alright or should I "update" them.

I have been reeling back and forth this past couple weeks about if I should change the crossovers.

Should I? Do they look like they are in need of an update, or should I leave them alone?

-Storm.

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They look right to me. A very simple crossover.

Does anybody else feel this way:
He needs to unscrew and rotate one of those inductors 90 degrees (??).

Other than that, ride out your high! If ever there comes a time when you feel like the speakers just ain't doing it anymore- THEN do a caps upgrade (among other things).

If and when that time comes, I highly suggest buying a handfull of fairly inexpensive caps from various brands. It's loads more fun swapping them out and noting the changes/flavors they make vs sinking a lot of money in a single brand of cap and hating it.

Nathan