JuniorJBL wrote in part ""It still boils down to "Do you hear a difference or not" "That is the question"
If you do not then what does it matter?"
Shane, I could not agree more though would also like to get an idea of why. Makes it easier to move to the next level, do it in a cost effective way and to avoid the snake oil salemen.
Sounds as if you are on the right track.
Regards
Ted
I to love high-end Audio. and the "salesman" who most likely knows half or less about most things audio (if any are salesmen on this fourm I thank you for trying to bring balance to the force) most likely does not enjoy the search for all things audio (and JBL) as we do on this fourm.
That said I like to add more things to my system all the time as most of us here do
Most of my endevours happen on AudiogoN or eBay but I also have friends at some High-end audio stores here in Denver and Salt Lake City. That was the reason I had all of that good? wire but It sure sold for a lot of money.
I will try to post some pics of the wire's I made this afternoon.
If you are not sure if it can be done try to find a cost effective way to find out. In the end it can still be very fun and rewarding.
Shane
Ok, here it is "translated". I used AltaVista - Babel Fish Translator found at http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/tr
it works pretty good, but does a "word for word" translation and does not change the sentence stucture.
This is from the site:
http://membres.lycos.fr/jadai/cablesptt.html
To the general request, and after authorization of the author Pierre Johannet, let us reconsider this subject initially treated in the review Audiophile N°25 de Juillet/Aout 93 pennies the title "the cables, the condensers and the memory of insulators", N°27 de Décembre 93/Janvier 94 in an article entitled "to finish some with the cable" and finally N°29 de Juin /Juillet 94 comprising an article entitled "Reflexions on the musical quality of the amplifiers or the lessons of the cable"...
The history showed us that unfortunately one seems not to have finished with this topic with the great happiness thescientistic ones and other always ready gurus, realising hard cash, to help the disabled audiophile which does not know any more to which saint to dedicate the variables so much are numerous since the current sector to the part of listening. You do not leave any more berner, one sells to you, with great reinforcement marketing, lead at the ransom price in the form of pipes sprinkler as expensive as unaesthetic... the sometimes supplemented whole of magic cases containing in fact an animal circuit LRC (like that already included in your passive filters).
In fact one sells to you a filter moreover, not astonishing that that changes the sound. The majority of the cables, if it is not totality, act by compensation between the elements which they connect (what is their raison d'être). Unconsciously one will try to compensate for ("to improve") a link while playing on the cables attached to this link... or another. It is a true vicious circle. Then to return on ground, made in simple the and economic one, invest in the music and stop is delirious it: nothing can justify costs as eccentric as several thousands of franks for a few meters of copper wire (it was silver plated)... For this realization you will spend maximum 20F per meter + a little elbow grease and not expenses marketing for the packaging nor of royalties for that which proposed to us his solution full with good direction, Pierre Johannet. That it receives içi large a thank you of the audio community. This realization aims at minimizing the phenomena observed, even measured such as (inter alia): memory of insulators, effect of skin and contacts between bits, Micro Discharges of Interface (MDI).
One will thus use two cables postal and telecommunications authorities to 4 or 5 pairs (a "outward journey", a "return") per enclosure, the individual diameter of each bit being 5 with 6/10e Misters One will préfèrera the pairs armoured by a ribbon aluminium. Spacers will have then to be produced (here foams about it, one can use paperboard, wood, plastic) aiming at spacing the 2 cables of 35 mm. This last parameter proved to be fundamental. To place a spacer all 30 to 40 cm. The cable thus carried out will have to be deadened by installing with the entry (that is to say side amplifier) 2 small coils of 1µH carried out by winding 10 whorls in copper wire (diameter 15 with 20/10e) on a diameter of 20mm (to use as gauge a handle of screwdriver or handle of large brush...). One will lay out side enclosures a piece of lead intended to block the possible vibrations communicated by the HP. It can prove to be interesting to adapt the cable on its impedance, that is to say approximately 300 Ohms. One will use a resistance 2W, of préference carbon, the influence of the latter can prove to be negligible, it is to be tested with individually. One will finish the assembly by polarizing insulators by the intermediary of a pile of 9V + 2 resistances from 1 to 2 Méga-Ohms the unit connected on the drains (wire of naked shielding) of cables postal and telecommunications authorities. All precautions will have to be taken for this last assembly in order not to inject continuous 9V in your amplifier or your enclosures, the declining author any responsibility in this case. We seized the opportunity of the assembly of kit KLS6 to place the pile in the cases of the external filters and to polarize the whole of wiring, including the cables located in the enclosures. They are cables 5 pairs of data-processing network (100 base T) recovered thus free and answering schedules of conditions even more severe than those used in simple telephony
Hmmmmmmm....
Ok, now that we've got it "into" english, can anyone understand what they are really saying?
Originally Posted by JBLnsince1959
Hmmmmmmm....
Ok, now that we've got it "into" english, can anyone understand what they are really saying?
YUK YUK YUK My french is excellent but my english is poor.
This guy relate a cheap but terrible efficience set-up for kill noise, rf, and skin effet and memory insulated material...
You load shield, in this, the micro field of ac current is not absorb and distort by shield material and because shield load in Dc no ac noise RF and magnetic load shield... So all problem associated in this aspect is illiminate by set up...
This is one of the most aspect who cie build a mysterical garden hose for passif control...
p.s. this guy is not responsable if you shoot dc in ac line interconnect...
So, is include a step by step instruction for build cable and active kill noise system...
Jean...
I think it was Sound King wire I was using for my system, but the gauge may have been thicker. Is this clear jacketed wire with a rope braid that looks a lot like Monster Cable original? I had a problem with it oxidizing and turning green under the insulation (looked horrible) after a few years. If this happens, you won't be able to see it inside your speaker cabs.Well after all comments, theories, and general good reading, I'm waiting on some Sound King 16 awg speaker wire to do my internal wires as well as power the speakers. The guy who looks back at me when I'm shaving said it will sound just fine and quit fussing, it's NOT a heart valve...
My favorite speaker cable is Marshall Sound Runner OFC 10 gauge, made by Mogami. Simple, no-nonsense black PVC jacketed zip cable.
I try to corrected bad traduction word... for more your comprehension.
Jean...
To the general request, and after authorization of the author Pierre Johannet, let us reconsider this subject initially treated in the review Audiophile N°25 de Juillet/Aout 93 pennies the title "the cables, the condensers and the memory of insulators", N°27 de December 93/Jannuary 94 in an article entitled "to finish some with the cable" and finally N°29 de Juin /Juillet 94 comprising an article entitled "Reflexions on the musical quality of the amplifiers or the lessons of the cable"...
The history showed us that unfortunately one seems not to have finished with this topic with the great happiness the scientistic ones and other always ready gurus, realising hard cash, to help the disabled audiophile which does not know any more to which saint to dedicate the variables so much are numerous since the current sector to the part of listening. You do not leave any more berner, one sells to you, with great reinforcement marketing, lead at the ransom price in the form of pipes sprinkler as expensive as unaesthetic... the sometimes supplemented whole of magic cases containing in fact an animal circuit LRC (like that already included in your passive filters).
In fact one sells to you a filter moreover, not astonishing that that changes the sound. The majority of the cables, if it is not totality, act by compensation between the elements which they connect (what is their of the existence). Unconsciously one will try to compensate for ("to improve") a link while playing on the cables attached to this link... or another. It is a true vicious circle. Then to return on ground, made in simple the and economic one, invest in the music and stop is delirious it: nothing can justify costs as eccentric as several thousands of $$$ for a few meters of copper wire (it was silver plated or not)... For this realization you will spend maximum 10$$ per meter + a little elbow grease and not expenses marketing for the packaging nor of royalties for that which proposed to us his solution full with good direction, Pierre Johannet. That it receives, in france, large thank you of the audio community. This realization aims at minimizing the phenomena observed, even measured such as (inter alia): memory of insulators, effect of skin and contacts between bits, Micro Discharges of Interface (MDI).
One will thus use two cables postal and telecommunications authorities to 4 or 5 pairs (a "outward journey", a "return") per enclosure, the individual diameter of each bit being 5 with 6/10e Misters One will hope the pairs armoured by a ribbon aluminium. Spacers will have then to be produced (here foams about it, one can use paperboard, wood, plastic) aiming at spacing the 2 cables of 35 mm. This last parameter proved to be fundamental. To place a spacer all 30 to 40 cm. The cable thus carried out will have to be deadened by installing with the entry (that is to say side amplifier) 2 small coils of 1µH carried out by winding 10 whorls in copper wire (diameter 15 with 20/10e) on a diameter of 20mm (to use as gauge a handle of screwdriver or handle of large brush...). One will lay out side enclosures a piece of lead intended to block the possible vibrations communicated by the HP. It can prove to be interesting to adapt the cable on its impedance, that is to say approximately 300 Ohms. One will use a resistance 2W, the best choose is carbon, the influence of the latter can prove to be negligible, it is to be tested with individually. One will finish the assembly by polarizing insulators by the intermediary of a battery of 9V + 2 resistances from 1 to 2 Méga-Ohms the unit connected on the drains (wire of naked shielding) of cables postal and telecommunications authorities. All precautions will have to be taken for this last assembly in order not to inject continuous 9V in your amplifier or your enclosures, the declining author any responsibility in this case. We seized the opportunity of the assembly of kit KLS6 to place the pile in the cases of the external filters and to polarize the whole of wiring, including the cables located in the enclosures. They are cables 5 pairs of data-processing network (100 base T) recycling material thus free and answering schedules of conditions even more severe than those used in simple telephony[/QUOTE]
Yes Go
http://www.vandenhul.com/artpap/cable_faq.htm
is explain in details why your jacket oxidize the cable and why the life time is short...
Of course is promotion products but keep part of verity and drop the rest...
The PVC contains solvant and is comtamined your cable, other reason for teflon is really better jacket...
Jean.
A tribo electric question is, in general, one point who home made produce an magic kingdom effect in sound...
Look, never is perfect...
In article of PTT cable the tribo electric is not cancelled by foil of lead..
just fix cable of your speaker??? heretic move ??? the speaker is shake!!!
Yes put if you cable fix in the entire cable move with speakers... in this the cable is not spring effect in one side inertia and other big move... the spring effect is produce a constant displacment inside of braid to other braid and generate noise... So tape cable with jacket in speaker especially is the core is light ... look inside of instrumental amplifier. NO CABLE LOOSE, all link to other and maximum stabilisation and inertia cable is founded. It is not a sufficient aspect but necessary if you try a better sound...
Other method to mesure and control Tribo-electric effet....
this set-up is cost over a 125.000 USD ... Of course you pay for that..
but this is world leader approach is not a bla bla bla but proof and test and mesure...
More serious work more serious and credible result.
Happy-end ???
The article describes how to make a DIY 9V biased speaker cable using Category 5e twisted pair datacom cable, perferably using the shielded variety (SCTP, "SCreened Twisted Pair") commonly used in Europe, but also available in the US (where UTP, "Unshielded Twisted Pair" is the standard).Hmmmmmmm....
Ok, now that we've got it "into" english, can anyone understand what they are really saying?
Construction is per the diagram. The author emphasizes the importance of maintaining the 30 - 40 mm. separation of the two composite conductors using fabricated spacers, and cautions to be careful that the 9V (through 1 - 2 Meg Ohm resistors) is applied between the shields only via the drain wire and not to the conductors themselves. The 1 uH inductance coils on the input end of the cable each comprise 10 turns of #20 (?) wire wound at approximately 20 mm. diameter, and a 330 Ohm, 2 W carbon resistor terminates the cable.
Belden makes suitable datacom cable, their "Data Tuff" (industrial) and "Data Twist" types, including teflon-insulated plenum versions, if you can't find shielded Cat 5E, about $1.00/Ft in bulk.
The 8 - 24 AWG conductors sum to the equivalent of larger than 16 G stranded, without micro-conduction between the strands (see, I can make crap up, too), since they are insulated from each other in the cable. 5-pair (also availiable) would equate to 14 G wire. In researching this, I find that Belden also makes 10 G high-conductivity speaker wire for use in bi- and tri-amp installations. A fun perusal, the www.belden.com website....
This is kinda what Synergistic and Audioquest does for there "Active cables"
Mainly video
Shane
Who ?? me ???
Yeah 6n purity kool-aid... with big shaker
The many proof effet is details on lab procedure and control...
I not resume one wall of white paper in there....
Blind test ??? if I proof 1+1=2 and why to run a blind test anyway the sceptic is sceptic...
I write big replys and I tried to explain the problematic of part of fact and parts of fraud...
what difference if the 3, 5 or 7 harmonic is relevant in 3, 6, or 10 dB... Anybody listen the difference ??? but the noise is there.... and after expertise is easely identifiying by ear...
the lab test for cable is depend of cable and application but for vibration integrity test I send a pict in reply # 32...
------------------------
BTW why Giskard choose a goertz copper flat 4n ???, silver soldering, ultra-grade caps ??? Dc charge biais (consider by Solen to futile) ???, simplified path and control of layout for minimal interactive parts ... for connecting by magic cable lamp ???
I try to consider with respect each position in this tread and try to expose my backgrounds expertise in this way, I try to put a different aspect of complex problematc cable... and try to help by tips and rule any guy who guess home solution....
But i'm not a guru or Great Master...
well it is time to go a better drink...
Jean.
A while back I posted the why part... I don't think you can prove that 1+1=2 since we are dealing with perception and not simple measured data.
I think we all agree that only that which we hear is important... i.e. we agree that wire that is superior in the MHz range is of little importance in the realm of audio. The issue is that we can't isolate what is audible from our perception of what is audible. A double blind test is the ONLY method for a valid test.
Widget
I run many blind test, in general, if you explain the trouble and benefict effect majority of guys listen the difference in Blind test... and it is reality earing fact. The shaker for test is never go upper than 10K and in general The tribos test is run in shaker at around 80Hz...
So build Blind test with your ear: put blue tack gum or tape or any strong fixing method tarap, for fix all your interconnect ( dont matter the type) in each machine, blue tack your cable speaker in back of the speaker never place cable in whip effect.... play before and after !!! try to this work with the cable resonse in same spring and what is best position for less motion...
other home experience put big bag sand on top of your speaker... listen before, after, and fix and unfix cable...
if you not listen a difference good for you.... It is impossible for me to build proof on your head and your ear in distance ??? and what music test,
this is not black and white effect...
I send a couple of image for little easier aspect but, many more other major problem in stereo affect quality sound... so this is not " The " effect...
happy or not this is end for me now...
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