Questions on Altec Flamenco 848A

[telynau]

I am the new owner of two Altec Flamenco 848A speakers and would appreciate any advice more experienced hobbyists might have on what to do or not do with them. (If there is a reference work available I will be happy to consult it or acquire it -- just let me know -- I don't mean to ask for information that is readily available elsewhere).

Here is the situation and my questions.

1. Both drivers in both speakers appear to be in good working order. I have played them on an NAD CD receiver and even with this modest solid state source/amplifier they sound very good. (I will try them with appropriate tube gear in due course, but wanted to verify that they worked.)

2. There is a label on the back of one speaker (the other speaker is missing its label) that says:

Iconic
Loudspeaker
Altec Lansing
A Division of LTV Ling Altec, Inc.

Can the speakers be dated by this label? I suspect so and would guess late 60's to early 70's.

3. I am unable to find a serial number on the cabinets. Were the cabinets serialized?

4. I unscrewed the screws in one of the cabinet backs with the hope of looking at the drivers. I tried to woodger it around (using the empty screw holes) to get it off but it didn't move. I stopped before I did anything irreversable.

Should I give up and leave well enough alone? Is there a "best" way to get the backs off? When I tap the back of the speaker it appears that there is a square hole cut in the middle of the back that is covered by a thin veneered wood cover which is fastened to the back by staples. Would you recommend that I take these staples out, remove the wood cover and use the hole to tap the back of the speaker off?

These speakers are supposedly one owner speakers and completely unmessed with. I have seen what is supposed to be a copy of the original sales slip (you have seen it too if you saw these speakers on eBay). I mention this only by way of background.

5. Assuming I can get to them, should I have the crossovers tested? Without taking the crossovers out of the cabinets and having them tested, is there any way to know whether the crossover capacitors are still OK and whether they are otherwise operating correctly?

6. These speakers have plastic grillwork that is intended to look like wrought iron. I suspect that all I should do with them is wipe them off with a damp cloth, but thought I would ask just in case there is another preferred treatment. I am mindful of the conservation principle that you should avoid doing anything that can't be reversed.

7. The speakers apparently lived in an area that was exposed to sunlight and the speaker cloth is quite faded. Is there a concensus on what to do about this condition? I would prefer to restore the speakers to their original appearance by replacing the cloth if I could find a substantially identical replacement (I would keep the old cloth in the event I ever wished to restore it to the speakers). I am going to have a furniture restoration specialist I trust clean the cabinets, touch up the little dings and probably do some stabilization and perhaps restoration of the finish (NOT refinishing) where it has been damaged by exposure to sunlight. I point this out as further background because I bought these speakers to be played and enjoyed rather than to be static displays or museum pieces.

Regards, James

[moldyoldy]

Hi, James,

If I saw the right auction, they looked like an unusually good, original pair, congrats!

Try laying them on their side or even upside down to remove the backs (after making sure you didn't miss any screws!) If there's no room to insert a blade, that's why they're snug. If there was a humidity shock in transit, they may be swelled a little. Removing the stapled panels where an optional biamp could be installed needs to be done anyway, so you can get a pull on the back, and then replace those thin panels with a sturdier alternative, a gasket, and some screws.

On the label is a red 722 which is the S/N (which is fairly meaningless).

To the left side of the label, there's a smaller 391410. 391 is the Altec EIA code, and 4 means 1974, and the 10 is the week.

Additional internal bracing won't hurt those boxes a bit. Even when new, they (and the siblings Valencia and Madrid) would benefit from panel stiffening. 1x2s on edge diagonally across each panel would help a lot and be easy too. Maybe a weatherstrip seal for the back panel and a few extra screws there too.

You can replace the caps in the XO cheaper than you could hire them tested. You're gonna worry about it till you do anyway.....nothing fancy needed, some Sprague or Nichicon film caps of the same values will be fine.

If the diaphrams are the originals (good chance), a new pair from GPA will be a signifigant improvement. As long as they were never severely overpowered (and what wasn't in the 70s?), the Alnicos should be fine.

Good luck with the grill cloth getting anything close to original. If the original's toasted, it won't hurt a thing to try to dye it for reuse. Careful with those plastic grills, they're old. Inspect their mounting for sources of buzzes or rattles too. I think if I was gonna remove and save anything cosmetic for posterity, it'd be them. (They just beg for a 4-ft desert scene on black velvet hung overhead, or maybe Dogs Shooting Pool.)
----------------------------
" I bought these speakers to be played and enjoyed rather than to be static displays or museum pieces."
-------------------
Amen, Brother! That's what they were made for!

[Storm]

Wow, how did you figure out the date?

I have a pair of Altec 846U's with serial numbers 2210 and 2214.

Can you help me out on the date? I know from 1971-1974, but knowing a year would be awesome.

Thanks!

[moldyoldy]

It isn't the serial # that determines, you'll have to find a 6-digit stamped # which begins with 391. The 4th digit is the last # of the year produced, the last two are the week of that year. There's likely one somewhere on each driver too, as well as the cabs.

[Storm]

It isn't the serial # that determines, you'll have to find a 6-digit stamped # which begins with 391. The 4th digit is the last # of the year produced, the last two are the week of that year. There's likely one somewhere on each driver too, as well as the cabs.

I am unable to open the cabinets, they are glued shut. Any other options?

Thanks.

[moldyoldy]

I am unable to open the cabinets, they are glued shut. Any other options?

Thanks.

Maybe mail them to yourself via USPS? You'll be able to get inside for a look when they arrive.

[telynau]

With some effort I got the back of one of my Flamenco's off. It required the somewhat destructive removal of the thin sheet of wood on which the label is mounted (picture attached). I turns out that the thin sheet is there because the horn driver would otherwise be too long to fit in the cabinet -- the driver actually projects a half inch or so into a circle cut into the back panel of the speaker. Thus the thin sheet is tacked over the hole in the back panel to seal the speaker up. BTW, the serial number of the speakers confirms that they were built in 1970, which is consistent with the scan of the original sales slip I have.

Where I am now is trying to figure out how to get the front panel of the speaker out. If I can safely remove it I can probably reverse the speaker cloth and presto chango I will have solved my fading problem (the inside of the cloth looks newish). Any hints on how to get the plastic grills off or -- on the inside of the speaker, remove the front panel? I took nine screws out of trim pieces that appear to hold the front panel in, but at the top of the front panel there is a piece of trim that looks like it was stapled in -- and the staples would have to be drilled out to get it out.

One bummer. As I removed the woofer something was sticking to the very bottom of the woofer frame -- turns out that it was a glob of blackish gooey stuff that was either there to start with or melted down off the cone surround. As I GENTLY removed the speaker it stuck and even though I GENTLY cut it loose from the speaker the removal process resulted in a small tear in the speaker surround (not the cone) where the gooey stuff attached the speaker surround to the cabinet. So I think I am going to have to have this repaired.

Regards, James

[Gary L]

The black goo meltdown is a fact of life with all the altec accordion style surrounds. Best thing is to flip the woofers 180 degrees every few years so it flows in opposite directions.
Not sure how badly you tore the surround but if not too bad I think you could use some preparation to repair this your self and get by for quite a while before a rebuild is necessary. Those surrounds are quite tuff and last a long time even with a tear or two and I doubt it would affect the sound at all unless it is a bad tear. I repaired one of my old ones with some black silicone used for installing windshields but it was just a hole where a screw driver went thru the surround.

Interesting how the driver is sunk into the rear panel and covered over with luan! Is it an 811B horn or the larger 511B?

Sorry I can't help with getting the grills off. Often wondered how this was done myself but I am sure someone here will help with that.

Nice speakers and basically they are the upgraded model of the 846 in a fancier cabinet. Many here swear they do best with tubes but I have had many and always was quite happy with good SS running them.

GPA can repair all the components so you are a few steps ahead of the Vintage game with Altecs.
Enjoy and welcome to the world of horny Altecs.

Gary

[telynau]

Here is a pic inside one of the Flamenco's. Regards, James

[telynau]

Yuck. Send in those helpful hints on how to disassemble the front speaker baffle! Regards, James

[telynau]

Thanks, Gary. The horns are 16 ohm 806A's. There is also a little printed box, inside of which there is an "AL" on the top, then a horizontal line and "85" on the bottom. The manufacture date is stamped on them (391028); in addition, there are what I expect are serial numbers (3568 and 3596).

I took the other speaker apart tonight and although the bottom of the speaker surround was stuck to the front baffle it didn't tear. However, the surround is cracked in a couple other places, so it needs some repair too.

Is Great Plains Audio the best place to go? I will probably want them to check the horn drivers as well as check over the woofers. Not sure how hard it is to check out/restore the crossovers but I will want to do that too. I am a typical enthusiast and now that I have everything apart I won't be happy until I make sure all of the components function as correctly as they can given their age and are preserved in proper condition to play another 20 years or more.

Do people ever replace the back panels themselves? The pressed board is very dry and basically crumbles when you put any kind of strain on it.

BTW, I am not a complete philistine when it comes to restoring old hi-fi. I always save all the parts I swap out and try not to do anything that can't be reversed, so some future fanatic can do a 100% correct and authentic restoration way down the pike. Regards, James

[Gary L]

The horns are 811Bs and mounted from the front of the flange making them set deeper into the cabinet. Thats why the cutout exists.

GPA is about the only place I would send this stuff and when you send the woofers for rebuild I think he will also recharge the magnets in the horn drivers for no additional charge. You will end up with basically brand new drivers and all original. They can also replace the diaphrams in the 806 HF drivers if necessary.
Recapping the XOs is quite easy and could be a DIY project if you can solder. Pretty rare that the resistors ever go but caps are a good idea.

Others can help with your other questions but they sure do look like nice speakers and in great original condition.

Gary

[thegreek74]

Gift from a friend, like to get them back up and playing again... Opened the back they are in mint condition. Like to have the crossovers rebuilt and new caps.. The things are massive... Hope with little help I can tune them up..

[gdmoore28]

What a gift! What do you think of the sound of the Flamencos compared to your current speakers?

Please start a separate thread and keep us updated on your progress.

GeeDeeEmm