4343 vs 4430 experience

[Guido]

Let me move a little bit off the red line of this thread.
As you may know, Ralf and me are working on a pair of 4430. Of course they are not finished yet. As soon as we have them up and running we will do extensive testing. Believe me

In the meantime I did an A/B Test with my new DIY 4425 / 4343. OK, they have not really a chance but....

Bass:
Unbelievable how deep this 4425 goes It is not only the spec sheet that tells us that both, 4425 and 4343 are tuned to 34 Hz. It's real.

Mid Bass, Mid
Here there is a clear advantage for the 4343 what was to expect. More clear and ?punchy?

MidHigh, High
Amazing, Insane This 2342 Horn is definately better in imaging. It produces the artist inside the room. Wow

Ultra high
No doubt! There is a lack of UHF with the 2342/2416 combination. But it is not so obvious and always present that I could say it is really downgrading this little 4425.

Finally I have to say that I can't wait to have the 4430 for testing

[4313B]

Only an A/B of a stock 4343 or 4343B and a stock 4430 would be valid.

Heck, my modified 4430's sound better than my stock 4430's!

I think you are using significantly better components in your all your filters aren't you Guido? Plus a 2012H in place of a 2121H?

[Guido]

Originally posted by Giskard

Heck, my modified 4430's sound better than my stock 4430's!

I think you are using significantly better components in your all your filters aren't you Guido? Plus a 2012H in place of a 2121H?

Hi Giskard,

what did you modify with your 4430? Or is it a secret

In my newer filters I use only high high quality components. But I do not use too low DCR inductors as JBL also does not.

My 4343 network is stock. OK nearly stock. I modified the mid section with additional 20 uF as Earl K once recommended and I bypassed the slot. No other bypasses as I didn't like the sound of the 2420 when bypassed.

Finally the 2012H. Yes I still don't have a 2121. But with the x-over mod the 2012H is amazing.

[Robh3606]

Hello Guido

"This 2342 Horn is definately better in imaging. It produces the artist inside the room. Wow"

Expect the same from the 2344. Real nice imaging qualities. I have a pair of 2342 too but have not compared the two. Very different looking horns through the mouth and slot. I was always curious if they do indeed sound different.

Rob

[Ian Mackenzie]

Okay, I don't agree chaps,

It depends on your notion of imaging,

A holograph yes is nice, but the same holograph regardless..are you kidding.

And where are the dynamics.......I mean hello.

Read On............

My direct comparisons suggested the 2344 had a nice sweet spot and this required absolute symmetry of the speakers and depending on the toe in, a varying degree of imaging.

Finally, what did it was I could never make my mind up on whether to toe em in slightly or at 45 degree direct with my ears.....the problem was I could never hear enough direct over reflect sound Man.

Unless you have absorbent tiles all around the room, I fail to see how you can control this..(a studio is a different matter)

Besides, I can't think of many musical instruments that produce a constant 100 x 100 polar response, nor the human voice...its bullshit, pigs arse really Man.

On the other hand, the 4343-54 has controlled dispersion and the direct sound verus reverberant sound is more obvious and controllable. (the bells on Dark Side of the Moon,,,wow)

This is why the imaging is perceived deeper in in the sound stage and expands outward when you unleash your big amps and you get the sensation of a big band walking through your listening room .

The effect of loudness being a real live sensation...the hallmark of JBL.

I could never achieve this with the 2344 without the reverberant field swamping all the direct energy.

Finally, the 4343-45 has more extension and dynamics.

The issues of the 2405 are more a matter for correct set-up and quality capacitors.

Recent tests rendered the transition from the 2307/08 to the 2405 unperceivable.


Ian
:shock:

[Robh3606]

"Besides, I can't think of many musical instruments that produce a constant 100 x 100 polar response, nor the human voice...its bullshit, pigs arse really Man. "

Please don't be shy. Tell us how you really feel on this.




Rob

[Ian Mackenzie]

What,

When I blow........my horn its .......well you know.



Ian

[Earl K]

I love them all - that's why, they all get to live in my living room with the horses, cats & dogs >? EarlK

But really, in the days of the Ludites before the internal combustion engine, life was mostly an exponential experience.
Now with many forms of alternative realities - life is one large barage of CD spray. Yea, back to the future .
- 2¢ philosophy for the masses.

[JonFairhurst]

I had a pair of 2307s for years. I had the 2308s too, before they fell apart. The lenses just don't handle the road or small children well.

The fact is, I never liked them. Without the lenses they were too beamy. With the lenses they had too much phase smear. In either case I found them harsh and resonant. Like Giskard I have learned not to like exponential horns. (When you put your ear up to them, you can hear the ocean!) But, coupled with a good compression driver, they sure can dish out the dynamics!

I've found that I like fast flare horns much better than the long throats. A pair of K2 S9800s would be fine, thanks!

Ian's right about the 2344s giving more reverberant energy than the 2307/8 or many other HF solutions. But, the fact is, I like it. I find it more balanced with the LFs, which go omni-directional anyway. I use mine in a home studio environment, and I like that I get a balanced spectrum whether I'm sitting at the PC, standing with a guitar or over at the MIDI keyboard.

So, where did my wretched 2307s end up? At Ian's house! It's great to know that they are now in good use, providing great enjoyment. Rock on, Ian!

Disclaimer: I've never heard the 2344s or 2307s in a fully stock configuration. Maybe with the right amp and x-overs in the right room, I would have loved the 07/08 combo. (Actually, I did hear a pair of stock 4430s many times, but the room was horrid. It was for video post at Grass Valley Group, and was about 20 feet wide and six feet deep with a low ceiling and glass on the back wall. Yuk!)

[Earl K]

Hi Jon

I've found that I like fast flare horns much better than the long throats. A pair of K2 S9800s would be fine, thanks!

Yea, I agree. I usually like a fast flare on whatever sort of horn, compared to a long throated ??? - even CD type . I would really like to hear a H9800 someday . You know - it has some interesting curves builtin into it - including - by the looks of it - some exponential curves loading the vertical axis .

<> Earl K

[4313B]

Originally posted by JonFairhurst
(When you put your ear up to them, you can hear the ocean!)

Wow! I heard a fat lady singing with the ocean in the background.

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by Giskard
Wow! I heard a fat lady singing with the ocean in the background.

Yeah, but the fat lady always seems to have a nasal problem.

[Robh3606]

Hello Ian

Just messing with ya I will be trying the same combo you have going now so I will see then which I like better. I don't have enough recent time on the 2307/2308 slot combo to really say for sure what the deal is. You are right though the 2344 does bounce lots of energy into the room. It seem's to work in mine. Not sure how the other will fare.

Rob

[4313B]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that everyone should build both systems and give them a spin. I think Mike Caldwell has some 2307's and 2308's for sale so let's help him get rid of them

[subwoof]

I am building a pair of baffle boards to experiment with for the 4343's in the shop. The 2420/2307/2308 combo is being replaced with a 2373 ( MR series horn ) with a 2426J driver. This eliminates the "smear" and "kid" issue with the HF and allows a normal grill to be used on these to reduce overall footprint depth ( SAF issue ). The baffle area they occupy is almost the same.

Of course the 2405 will be retained to sterilize teenage bats that wander too close. The components will be aligned in a true L/R mirror image ( vertical cabinet use ) for slightly wider image ( similar to the 4345 ) in a small room....

I will post a picture of this when I thaw out the shop and finish them...

On the 2344's - I had a stock pair of 4430's in my living room for years. The imaging was pretty good considering the placement dictated by the other half...unfortunately the space behind the horn flare was a favorite hiding place for the TV remote...

I found that the 2421A drivers HF was lacking - I installed the later version 2426J and boosted the level a bit.

sub