Recommendations for a JBL speaker project?

[Evets]

Hello.
I discovered this site after I began researching the possibilities of building a pair of the L100s by buying individual parts as I find them and building the cabinet on my own. I was also planning on updating the original crossover wither newer caps and the like, as well as trying out oneor two of the new improved crossovers for the L100. ANyway, after reading through numerous posts on this site, I have noticed several comments along the lines of, 'Why bother with a DIY L100 when you can simply buy a complete set for less money than you would spend building a pair piece by piece.' With that comment in mind, I'm hoping that some of you will share recommendations for "better" JBL speakers for a project of this nature.

Here are some parameters:
I would like to keep this project at a low to moderate pricepoint ~ $500 or less for parts, not including the materials for building the cabinet.

I listen mostly to various styles of rock and jazz with the occasional foray into classical music.

I (read "The Wife") do not want gigantic speakers.

The speaker and its parts certainly don't need to be as omnipresent as the L100, but I would like to locate the necessary parts in a few months (or less) rather than a year or two.

By the way, I have been a member of the JBL club since 1983 when I purchased a pair of J325 speakers that are with me to this day. I look forward to something better.

Thanks.
-Steve

[mikebake]

Do a search for Project May.

[johnaec]

Look for components from the L100T or L100T3, (completely different beast than the plain L100). The L100T series is a total step up from the L100 in every way, and complete pairs are often on eBay in the $300 - $500 range. If you could find a good set, especially the T3, I wouldn't even bother with new cabinets. Note - the 12" 2214H LF speakers have foam surrounds, which often need replacing by now. Avoid any that have had the foam incorrectly glued on the front instead of the back of the cones. Also, the 4412 monitor uses essentially the same components, but includes level controls.

John

[speakerdave]

Don't build--buy. Buying the components on ebay to replicate a manufactured speaker is almost a certain way to see the actual speaker pass by for a bargain within a month after completing your hunt for parts. Why are speaker parts available on ebay? Because the chop shops know they can get more for the parts than they can get for the speakers entire.

Watch ebay for some 4412A's or earlier 12'-woofer JBL monitor style speaker and bid within your price range until you get what you want.

To assemble the parts and build a speaker economically you must be lucky enough to get four or five bargains; to get the whole speaker you only need to hit it right once. Even if you have to do some repair work, it still will work out most likely. Go to work reading in the LH library and in the threads and identify three or four models that would suit you, and just keep watching ebay and your nearest craigslist.

David

Here:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/msg/201068476.html

Get him on the phone, tell him how to pack speakers, pay him, make a deal.

[Phil H]

. . .Watch ebay for some 4412A's or earlier 12'-woofer JBL monitor style speaker and bid within your price range until you get what you want. . . .

I'll second that. Yesterday, a pair of ugly 4412's with bad surrounds sold for $113.50 + $80 shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[Don Mascali]

In budget:
I'd have to go with the L100t or L100t3. They are cheap and sound fantastic stock and the Xovers can be charge coupled and/or bypassed. There is plenty of info here for this.
The veneer on these leave something to be desired. So redo them in the exotic wood of your choice over the original cabs and presto! you've got one nice sounding and looking set of speakers. Really cheap too.

Streching the budget:
The next step up would be 4430 clones. Search "Quick and Dirty". Zilchs' work will blow your socks off. These are as good as a JBL gets IMHO.

DIY is where it's at.
Good luck in whatever you try.

Don M

[duaneage]

JBL has made good speakers since the 80's too. The L7 or L5 series are quite good and you can still find 4425 or 4412 systems that are only 10 years old, compared to 20+ year old systems.

As to staying away from woofers with the surrounds glued to the front, well, I have 2214H speakers that are incorrectly refoamed and they tested OK to me. If you can save a few dollars by pointing that out then you'll be ahead of the game. In a few years when they go bad you can glue them to whichever side you feel like.

I have the L100T and they are a great speaker. The 128H woofer in my 4411 is also a great driver and they used 128H in a number of systems. You can find them in the 400-500 range occasionally too. Check your local craiglist

[Mr. Widget]

Watch ebay for some 4412A's or earlier 12'-woofer JBL monitor style speaker and bid within your price range until you get what you want.

I'll second that. Yesterday, a pair of ugly 4412's with bad surrounds sold for $113.50 + $80 shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Those twelve foot woofers may be a problem for the wife... but the 4412s are also a really nice speaker and frequently under valued...


Widget

[SUPERBEE]

For 5 bills just buy a set of OG L-100s or 4311s

[Evets]

Thank you all for the sound advice and for helping narrow my search. You have already saved me time and money. Also, thank you for being fairly concerted in your recommendations; I wondered if I might receive a completely different recommendation from each person. I will get back to reading the numerous useful threads on this site and start scanning eBay and my local Craigslist (Los Angeles area).

At the moment the top candidates appear to be the 100T or T3 and the 4412 with the 4430 or Project Maywood (I haven't read the threads for this project yet) as additional possibilities. I probably should create a mockup or two to help determine the maximum size that still meets the WAF.

"Those twelve foot woofers may be a problem for the wife..." Yes, that would be a problem. I will stay away from speakers with 12' woofers.

Thanks again for all the help. I'm sure I'll return with more questions as this is clearly the place to be for JBL expertise. I'm always open to additional suggestions and advice.

-Steve

[Evets]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget:
"I'd rather have the L100t3 over the 4430 in most instances..."

If you have the time and the inclination, I would like to know more about the instances in which the 4430 would be preferable to you.

-Steve

[Mr. Widget]

If you have the time and the inclination, I would like to know more about the instances in which the 4430 would be preferable to you.

Many on this forum like the 4430s... even those who eventually traded them in on something else. For me, they can sound a bit hard up top and they don't have a very extended UHF response so they lack air. (I'm using the term air for a lack of a better description.) Also since the lower mids are handled by a rather massive 15" woofer (not 15', though that could be interesting) I find they lack some of the detail that systems like the L100T3 or 4412 as well as many others can offer.

Really I would only go for them over a smaller system if LOUD or BIG were more important than quality. If LOUD or BIG are of paramount concern, they are pretty good, but even then there are better alternatives... but very few that offer their quality at their current used price point.


Widget

[duaneage]

I second widgets comments on the 4430. Asking a 15 inch woofer and horn driver to do a 2-way is a stretch and you have to compromise somewhere. They are also really big and take a larger footprint than the tower designs. And they are probably going to be out of your budget unless you find a pair that need TLC

The 2214H driver in the L100T is aligned so that you get really deep bass, probably better than the 4425 monitor (both use the same woofer) and the T3 version features a different crossover topology that give them more presence. The tweeter and midrange are the 035Ti and the 104H3 respectively, both used in a variety of studio monitors. These drivers are commonly available used so should you throttle one, you won't spend a month looking for replacements (and they won't set you back a pile of dough)

I see more L100T systems than L100T3 on eBay, and then there is rare L200T that was a home version of the 4425 (to some degree). L200T systems are not affordable at all.

[Evets]

Sorry for the delayed response, I went camping for a few days.

Thanks, Mr. Widget, for clarifying your comments on the 4430 - the clarification is helpful. Also, thank you Duaneage for the additional explanation and details - they too, are helpful. I will keep my eyes open for the 4412, the 100T, and the 100T3.

THe pro monitor 4412 is interesting simply because I've never owned a "pro monitor" nor have I owned a "horizontal" speaker. What can I expect from a monitor in relationship to the more traditional commercial speakers? I have always assumed that pro monitors are designed to present all of the musical information at a low volume level in a near-field situation. Is that assumption correct? More importantly, can I expect them to fill my room (20'x13')? FWIW, my seated position is currently 9' from my speakers. Does this dimension dictate the L100T or T3 over the 4412? Finally (for now), I will need to use these speakers for HT as well as two channel listening. Is the 4412 shielded so that I could use it as a center channel if I wanted to?

Thanks again for all of the help.

-Steve

[Zilch]

ANyway, after reading through numerous posts on this site, I have noticed several comments along the lines of, 'Why bother with a DIY L100 when you can simply buy a complete set for less money than you would spend building a pair piece by piece.' With that comment in mind, I'm hoping that some of you will share recommendations for "better" JBL speakers for a project of this nature.

If the economics don't matter that much, and what you want is a "project," DIY speakers using L100 components (or some of them, at least,) would be a worthy pursuit. The answer to the "Why bother" question is you then have the potential of coming out with something actually listenable when complete. Here's my suggestion(s):

1) A cabinet sized and tuned to have 123A-1 play well. Closed box seems to be a valid, if not optimum, approach (EBP=48). BB6P suggests 3.3 cuft. (below, blue,) but I'm liking a bit smaller, 2.8 cuft. (orchid,) with heavy fill, to keep the excursion within spec. Bass response (-10 dB) goes down to ~27 Hz with that, i.e., quite good.

See here for more:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=12036


2) Mirror-imaged offset vertical-in-line driver alignment like L100T:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Te...L100t%20ts.pdf

For horizontal, I'd look to 4412(A) as a model, though it might take some measurement and testing to optimize.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Stu...es/4412ALR.pdf

Reminder: One side only shown in the pdfs. You want to build a mirror-image pair.


3) 035tiA tweeter in lieu of LE20/25. That'll get you some decent HF, which stock L100s can't deliver.


4) A crossover designed to tame LE-5 "forward" response.

[I mentioned mirror imaging, right? ]