Altec 414Z Surround Ooze

[Zilch]

Thanks, Widget and Grumpy.

That certainly illustrates the problem working with or designing around these vintage drivers, no matter how "good" they are (or were.)

If there were some specs available, we could at least assess the condition of individual units against those.

The situation is much the same with 416A/Z.

I suppose one option is to have them rebuilt "as new" and work from there.... :dont-know

[grumpy]

Yep, most of the "hard" T/S parameters seem to agree (Re, BL, Mms, Le),
it's the suspension-related stuff that varies (no surprise). Testing "freshies"
would give us a reasonable baseline. ... I see sean19's recent post shows
an Altec spec'd Fs of 30Hz for a 414-type unit.

[Zilch]

The published Fs of 414-8C and -8E are 30.2 and 30.3, respectively. Assuming 414A was the same (see link below,) and a random sampling of them measures 10 Hz higher, what does that tell us?

1) The suspension is now stiffer due to age,

2) They're not performing to original spec, and,

3) "That Altec Sound" isn't what it used to be.

Do we have reason to expect that goop hardens and spiders stiffen after 40 years?

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/a...1&d=1204428597

[edgewound]

Do we have reason to expect that goop hardens and spiders stiffen after 40 years?

That's a good enough reason to reactivate/reflow the goop with MEK or acetone to loosen it up because it gets thicker after decades exposed to the air.

[jblwolf]

Greetings all,I have also used a hairdryer to get the goop to reflow,verylow heat worked on a pair of 605's .I was wondering if any members have this "goop" that I could buy?,I have a pair of d123's that the goop has dryed out.I tryed to get the goop to reflow but theres not enough of it left to reflow.

[grumpy]

1) I don't know where to buy "goop", or for that matter what it actually is.
There are comments about airflex and waldom #aa75, but it's not clear to
me that this is correct for cloth (vs. paper) surrounds or that either are
currently available.

2) Given 3 samples of 414z, I'll hazard a guess that 414c's were a redesign
to give similar performance in a smaller (~5/8) box with a small loss of
efficiency (and 2x power handling). Then again, my measurements could be
crap ... and I don't have a 414c to compare.

3) Once I reduce/reactivate the goop on the units I have and run them in a bit,
I'll retest for changes.

-grumpy

[Steve Schell]

Mr. Bill Hayes, formerly of Altec, told me that the goop was a product of a company called Moyen. I don't know if Moyen is still around or if they still make goop.

[Mr. Widget]

The published Fs of 414-8C and -8E are 30.2 and 30.3, respectively. Assuming 414A was the same (see link below,) and a random sampling of them measures 10 Hz higher, what does that tell us?

1) The suspension is now stiffer due to age,

2) They're not performing to original spec, and,

3) "That Altec Sound" isn't what it used to be.

Do we have reason to expect that goop hardens and spiders stiffen after 40 years?

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/a...1&d=1204428597

I measured the FS of the pair I have. The one pictured at the beginning of this thread with the big mass of goop on the surround measured 35hz. The other 414Z which seems to be it's original mate, has far less goop on it and almost no puddle of ooze. It measured 32Hz.

I had been on the fence as to what to do with these woofers, but after taking an initial frequency response curve that showed quite a promising possibility for them I am going to fix these and give them a whirl.


Widget

[grumpy]

The other 414Z which seems to be it's original mate, has far less goop on it and almost no puddle of ooze. It measured 32Hz.

Nice ... motivation for me to bother un-over-gooping the units I have.
(still looking for one more, possibly two, if anyone has a lead -besides- Ebay...)

-grumpy

[herki the cat]

I measured the FS of the pair I have. The one pictured at the beginning of this thread with the big mass of goop on the surround measured 35hz. The other 414Z which seems to be it's original mate, has far less goop on it and almost no puddle of ooze. It measured 32Hz.

I had been on the fence as to what to do with these woofers, but after taking an initial frequency response curve that showed quite a promising possibility for them I am going to fix these and give them a whirl. Widget

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Mr. Widget, I expect you have resolved the problems with deteriorated "goop" on your 414-z drivers referenced in your "03-11-2008 12:17 AM" via today's "new posts,which suggests there is still considerable interest in rehabilitating Altec speakers.

"Goop" is still available in tubes...more about that, later...Some 40 years ago, in a cnversation with A.J. May at the RCA Lunch club, the subject of trade secrets in the RCA LC1-A Drawings came up and A. J. remarked That he found it convenient to specify in the LC1-A drawing parts list:"Goop," Purchasing shall Contact Engineering for vender."

Recently i was rumaging around "The Home Depot Store," adhiesives shelves & I found a big bin full of genuime "Moyen Inc' Goop", in tubes.
--------------------------------------------------------
Cheers herki the cat

[grumpy]

This ?:

http://www.eclecticproducts.com/ag_adhesives.htm

Jomoco... the later 8 ohm versions were in the 96-97dB range,
If you have access to WinISD (free), you can plug in nominal
T/S values to get a sensitivity estimate...

[herki the cat]

mr. Widget, i expect you have resolved the problems with deteriorated "goop" on your 414-z drivers referenced in your "03-11-2008 12:17 am" via today's "new posts,which suggests there is still considerable interest in rehabilitating altec speakers.

"goop" is still available in tubes...more about that, later...some 40 years ago, in a cnversation with A J May at the RCA lunch club, the subject of trade secrets in the RCA LC1-A drawings came up and A J May Remarked that he found it convenient to specify in the LC1-A drawing parts list:"goop," purchasing shall contact engineering for vender."

Recently i was rumaging around "the home depot store," adhiesives shelves & i found a big bin full of genuime "goop", in tubes.

Herki the cat

Up date 4/29/2010 regarding "goop"which you can still buy at the home depot in tubes. I had stated 'in error" in this post that "goop" was made by C. P. Moyen co." using info from a prestigous fellow LHForum fellow member's post.

However, Harvey Gerst;283577 states: "Yes, goop was originally only used on the JBL D123 cloth surround. I figured it would also be useful to prevent the paper surrounds on the "F" series from cracking."

BTW, I learned recently from Moyen Co., customer service that Moyen Co., is not the manufacturer of goop, a mistake in my post. The Goop manufacturer has been identified in this thread by member Maistrow in his post titled: "Hello From The Goop Guy"

Please contact Harvey Gerst;283577 for further info regarding "goop" since he met the "goop" people in an AES conference in NY City.

[basementbob]

i got a set i was thinking about parting with.here is a link to pics i put on forum http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...hlight=carmels. they work fine. i am going to keep the horns in the cabs. as u can see the set i got has a D130 in 1 cab and 2 414z in the other. why they did this i dont know. the only reason im selling is i need funds for jbl 2225h 15's and amps. and they take up alot of room.
from what i can gather they are rated at 35 watts. but im not sure about that. they do sound great. so Grumpy if u want a set with no goop runs let me know. the cabs are in bad shape. i saw a pair on the bay go for $291 + 30 s/h that looked as good as mine. the D130 is in great shape also.

[grumpy]

Thanks Bbob. I'll keep those in mind... that was quite a save from the incinerator!

-grumpy

[UreiCollector]

I used a knife that i heated repeatedly with a flame....not too hot, just hot enough to melt the goo. did the trick, and only melted the goo where the knife touched.


by the way, does anyone know what that goo is? I would like to get my hands on some for a project.