Exposing the Speaker Wire myth

[Akira]

Sometimes we like to read about things we already know...just to confirm what we already believe. Blasphemy on an 'audiophile' site but, common knowledge here.

I found this article interesting nonetheless:
Roger Russell – a former engineer and speaker designer for McIntosh Labs – describes the introduction of expensive speaker wire brands, and critiques their performance in his online essay called Speaker Wire
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

p.s. I suppose this is a little dig at the "other half" but, I still can't figure out what audiophiles hear??

[4313B]

I still can't figure out what audiophiles hear??

Stuff. They hear stuff normal people can't.

[alskinner]

The best speaker cable I have used for home use is Carol 16/4 SJ cord. I use it inside the box as twisted pairs and for connection to the amplifier. Cost is about .45 a foot. Much rather spend money on better electronics and drivers than speaker wire that I can't hear a bit of difference in.

Regards
AL

[robertbartsch]

There are a lot of scam artists around these days. High-priced speaker wire is just another sad example.

I read an article recently that said blind listener tests of attendees at a industry show "proved" high-priced wires are supieror. I suppose the "bad wire" in the test was super thin 28 gauge wire.

[Fred Sanford]

Even if you dismiss the notion that there are audible differences between differing types of brand-new cables, there's a huge spectrum of longevity among different types of cables. So, even if you believe that all wires of a certain gauge would sound alike when new, once they're aging things can certainly change.

Just for a small sampling of my background in this subject, here's a short synopsis of my history dealing with wiring day-to-day:

~1984-1986 serviced school & church sound & signalling systems ranging from the 1900s up to the 1980s, working for a company that had the service contract for the NYC Board of Education schools continuously since the 1940s. LOTS of servicing of cables & connections that failed over time, along with many instances of cabling that lasted just fine & tested within spec decades later. We're talking VERY long runs through city-block sized schools and cathedrals, buldings that often shut down their climate controls systems when not in use (if they even have them, often it was just steam heat at best).

~1986-1988 serviced, modified & installed high-end AV systems, mostly systems from the 1970s & 1980s.

~1988-1989 back at the school & church systems, re-visiting the same sites.

~1989-2000 auto & marine communications systems - here's where you REALLY see the difference in quality cabling. Many clients/fleets were repeats or corporate accounts, so many systems were removed, inspected & re-installed over the 11 years I worked there.

~2000-2007 serviced, modified & installed high-end AV & networking systems, ranging from the 1970s to current, even a number of AV systems from the previous stint of work from the late '80s.

Essentially, it makes a difference. I've sampled thousands and thousands of installations, from climate-controlled penthouse apartments to ocean-going tugboats. Some cables will survive in both, some cables will fail in both. Some, like certain hardware-store-special drop lights & extension cords I've seen employed as speaker cable, will have green & gooey conductors the day you take them home from the store & strip the "insulation" back.

je

[Mr. Widget]

...there's a huge spectrum of longevity among different types of cables. So, even if you believe that all wires of a certain gauge would sound alike, once they're aging things can certainly change.

Interesting résumé by the way.


Widget

[Fred Sanford]

Interesting résumé by the way.


Widget

Hey, thanks! What should I do next?

je

[robertbartsch]

Fred:

So does this mean that the higher priced cabling will last longer in a HT application, for example?

What brand speaker wire do you use in your own home; why?

[Akira]

Even if you dismiss the notion that there are audible differences between differing types of brand-new cables, there's a huge spectrum of longevity among different types of cables. So, even if you believe that all wires of a certain gauge would sound alike when new, once they're aging things can certainly change.

I think we all agree on that one. But, there seems to be a huge discrepancy between 'proper' wiring and 'magic' wiring.

I do however believe in dual (4 send) wired cabling. Some say it should be braided. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on the advantages of braiding. (reduce the skin effect?)
Dual cabling is my personal equivalent to "audiophile indoctrination." I can't hear the difference between a single 12 gauge 25' run compared to the dual 12 gauge run I normally use. But this is standard practice in studio installations so I have adopted it, believing it to be pro. The cabling I use has all 4 sends in one cable marked by only two colors.

[Russellc]

Even if you dismiss the notion that there are audible differences between differing types of brand-new cables, there's a huge spectrum of longevity among different types of cables. So, even if you believe that all wires of a certain gauge would sound alike when new, once they're aging things can certainly change.

Just for a small sampling of my background in this subject, here's a short synopsis of my history dealing with wiring day-to-day:

~1984-1986 serviced school & church sound & signalling systems ranging from the 1900s up to the 1980s, working for a company that had the service contract for the NYC Board of Education schools continuously since the 1940s. LOTS of servicing of cables & connections that failed over time, along with many instances of cabling that lasted just fine & tested within spec decades later. We're talking VERY long runs through city-block sized schools and cathedrals, buldings that often shut down their climate controls systems when not in use (if they even have them, often it was just steam heat at best).

~1986-1988 serviced, modified & installed high-end AV systems, mostly systems from the 1970s & 1980s.

~1988-1989 back at the school & church systems, re-visiting the same sites.

~1989-2000 auto & marine communications systems - here's where you REALLY see the difference in quality cabling. Many clients/fleets were repeats or corporate accounts, so many systems were removed, inspected & re-installed over the 11 years I worked there.

~2000-2007 serviced, modified & installed high-end AV & networking systems, ranging from the 1970s to current, even a number of AV systems from the previous stint of work from the late '80s.

Essentially, it makes a difference. I've sampled thousands and thousands of installations, from climate-controlled penthouse apartments to ocean-going tugboats. Some cables will survive in both, some cables will fail in both. Some, like certain hardware-store-special drop lights & extension cords I've seen employed as speaker cable, will have green & gooey conductors the day you take them home from the store & strip the "insulation" back.

je

I think you've put it best. I notice a difference, but no difference I've heard is worth 100 bucks a foot and so forth. I have had great results with radio shack speaker cable........for a while. Then you could see it turn green through the insulation when the sound "changed" for the worst.

I have some pairs of expensive Tara cables I bought back in the day, and the still havent turned green, and I notice a no difference in sound from when they were new. Now those cable cost 10 bucks a foot back then, and thats ridiculous. I have also made speaker cables from plenum cat 5 braids for WAY cheaper that sound just as good as the Taras, havent turned green after several years.

Good cabling can make a difference, but it isnt worth the sort of money some of these guys peddle them for.

Recently I am trying cheap, i.e. monster and dayton, which look like the Radio shack, but are said to be oxygen free. Been a while, no signs of turning green yet, and sound fine. Also cheap!

Russellc

[Allanvh5150]

p.s. I suppose this is a little dig at the "other half" but, I still can't figure out what audiophiles hear??

What the other half is "hearing" is the sense of well being after they have paid the maximum amout for a piece of lamp cord.

[Doctor_Electron]

Here is a link from Drew Daniels' Sound Path Labs Sitemap ( http://drewdaniels.com/sitemap.html ) titled "AUDIO STRICTLY FOR LAUGHS".
http://drewdaniels.com/badreligion.html

I worked with a dude, Jon, who not only contracted the dreaded (dreaded AFAIC) "More you pay for _____ , the better your system sounds" syndrome, but also happened to have a very wealthy father who tended to accomodate ($$$) him with his whims.
He returned to work one Monday after going to an Audio Show somewhere, with a $500+ pair of preamp to power amp "interconnects".
I think that says it all (but I could be wrong).

BTW, that was $500+ [1983] Dollars!

[jcrobso]

Here is a link from Drew Daniels' Sound Path Labs Sitemap ( http://drewdaniels.com/sitemap.html ) titled "AUDIO STRICTLY FOR LAUGHS".
http://drewdaniels.com/badreligion.html

I worked with a dude, Jon, who not only contracted the dreaded (dreaded AFAIC) "More you pay for _____ , the better your system sounds" syndrome, but also happened to have a very wealthy father who tended to accomodate ($$$) him with his whims.
He returned to work one Monday after going to an Audio Show somewhere, with a $500+ pair of preamp to power amp "interconnects".
I think that says it all (but I could be wrong)

BTW, that was $500+ [1983] Dollars!

If any of you know the story of "The Emperors New Cloths" it can apply to audio big time.
Many people thought I was crazy in 1966 when I spent $120 for my first JBL D140F. Just the speaker and no box?? Is what my wife said! I still have the speaker and the wife by the way.

In general I say that a $100 cable DOSE NOT sound four times better that $25 cable. John

[jeenie67]

It's Sunday morning, I roar some classical vinyl and couch-potato-it with the laptop. I read every entry to this topic and agree with most of your responses. I constructed interconnects ( traded some bookcases of mine for this material from the chemistry department) from clear polyurethane .125 ID tubing wrapped ( VSR drill motor ) with cat5e, at 45 degree crosshatched, solid copper 24 gauge wire. Terminations were Neutrik XLR's. This assembly was fished through another section of .375" identical matt tubing. Flexible and durable. All connections were soldered with high content silver, solder. My speaker cabling is constructed of four, 12 gauge solid copper core house wiring strands similarly wrapped and terminated direct to the x-over networks (for now, going active this week). Total time and materials: less than two hours and about $25. Seems to agree with some of the text entered here.

[hjames]

I constructed interconnects from clear polyurethane .125 ID tubing wrapped ( VSR drill motor ) with cat5e, at 45 degree crosshatched, solid copper 24 gauge wire.
Terminations were Neutrik XLR's.

My speaker cabling is constructed of four, 12 gauge solid copper core house wiring strands similarly wrapped and terminated direct to the x-over networks (for now, going active this week). Total time and materials: less than two hours and about $25. Seems to agree with some of the text entered here.

Pictures!! please ...