JBL Synthesis - Something BIG is on its way...

[Titanium Dome]

What? No love for God or the Academy?

Good for you TD. Keep on rockin'!

If She's out there somewhere or in here somewhere, I'm sure this wasn't on Her agenda considering the state of the planet. OTOH, I do know that all things are temporary and could be gone in the blink of an eye, so I'm grateful, grateful, grateful for life each day and all it brings.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I do know an angel though who's been wonderful throughout this process. Here she is next to another of my passions: growing roses.

[Hoerninger]

Just saw this:

[grumpy]

TD, It was a distinct pleasure to meet Huikyong
(yes, yes, the speaker-things are nice too).

[Rusnzha]

Before I get to the details, I'll close out this post by exclaiming that I never in my wildest dreams expected to have such a spectacular sounding system in my life. What I thought was great sound prior to calibration was a sad, pale joke compared to how it turned out.

IT IS BY FAR THE MOST EXCELLENT SONIC* EXPERIENCE I'VE EVER HAD with the single exception of listening to the Cleveland Orchestra in Severance Hall.

Better than any cinema I've ever been to.

Better than anyone else's home system I've listened to, JBL or otherwise.

Better than any concert I've attended in any venue.

Better...


*Notwithstanding I've had some incredible cultural and personal experiences at music and cinema events that were amazing, but not sonically as compelling or satisfying or convincing.

Congratulations Dome, glad it is exceeding your expectations How does Logic 7 sound on it

[Titanium Dome]

Congratulations Dome, glad it is exceeding your expectations How does Logic 7 sound on it

Thanks.

This is the first full L7 implementation I've had, so I'm still getting acquainted. As you might know, I'm a big, big fan of Jim Fosgate's work, which includes 6-Axis for Harman and DPLII for Dolby Labs. He said Logic 7 was his only competition, so I'm listening carefully.

[JBL 4645]

Thanks.

This is the first full L7 implementation I've had, so I'm still getting acquainted. As you might know, I'm a big, big fan of Jim Fosgate's work, which includes 6-Axis for Harman and DPLII for Dolby Labs. He said Logic 7 was his only competition, so I'm listening carefully.

Are you? Have you muted the LCR/sub and just listened to the surrounds with this Logic7 because I’m curious to know if it has any crosstalk artefacts like Dolby pro-logic II adds a bit of crosstalk into the surrounds over the traditional Dolby pro-logic decoding.

Does Logic7 work with all formats or only few?

Wasn’t Logic7 first used on Lexicon AVP during the early 1990’s or was mid 1990’s?

I seem to recall when I brought the Kenwood KRF-X9050D THX select back around 2000 and was nodding and going yeah, yeah its wicked. I was suspicious about the nature of the so called stereo surrounds with Dolby 4.2.4 since its 4 channels encoded into 2 then decoded back into 4 for playback.

I muted the fronts LCR/sub and monitored with either Dolby 4.2.4 laserdisc or downmixed the DVD by switching the AVR from (digital to analogue) played a few seconds of decent well balanced Dolby 4.2.4.

What I heard was mild crosstalk seeping into the (fake stereo surrounds) in Dolby pro-logic II then switching to Dolby pro-logic I noticed less crosstalk. I was kinder off-put by Circle surround (CS) as well.

If I’m playing in Dolby 4.2.4 I use Dolby pro-logic and since you’d never hear cinema playing Dolby pro-logic II aka Dolby stereo optical.

Its down to the encoding that counts and there have been a few numerous occasions in the past with poorly balanced VHS tapes it was common now than then with centre bleeding into the matrix surrounds due to phase issue of one Lt-Rt fronts?

I also noticed this on some really naff Dolby digital 5.1 mixes that seems to be simulating a six-track Dolby stereo mix or someone was drunk on the job. Halloween II Rambo first blood part II are some of the offenders!

[jblsound]

imo, L7 is superior to anything dolby has in every respect. Surround presence, center dialogue, the overall transformation of a stereo signal to a 7 channel surround presentation.
And that's just from my view using a HK receiver. I think L7 is slightly better with the much more expensive Lexicon processors, like the Synthesis systems use.

[JBL 4645]

imo, L7 is superior to anything dolby has in every respect. Surround presence, center dialogue, the overall transformation of a stereo signal to a 7 channel surround presentation.
And that's just from my view using a HK receiver. I think L7 is slightly better with the much more expensive Lexicon processors, like the Synthesis systems use.

Hmm, I’m almost tempted to find a second hand AVR/AVP with Logic7 to put it under closer scrutiny.

http://www.lexicon.com/logic7/index.asp
Logic7 white paper
http://www.lexicon.com/logic7/whitep...s_in_5-2-5.pdf


Quote from pdf white paper

Previous designs for matrix decoders tend to consider only the behavior of the matrix to a strongly steered signal – that is the behavior of the matrix elements around the boundary of our surfaces. This is a fundamental error in outlook. When you study real signals – either film or music – you find that the boundary of the surface is very seldom reached.

For the most part signals wobble around the middle of the plane – slightly forward of the center. The behavior of the matrix under these conditions is of vital importance to the sound. When you compare our elements to previous elements one can see a striking increase in the complexity of the surface in the middle regions. It is this complexity which is responsible for the improvement in the sound.
Quote

http://www.harmankardon.com/technolo...term=Logic%207

[jblsound]

I personally don't have any problem with dialogue in my system, using any format. But just switching back and forth from L7 to DD I can easily tell the difference. And that is with all formats being level matched so that every channel, every source, using any format is the same at the seat.

[JBL 4645]

I personally don't have any problem with dialogue in my system, using any format. But just switching back and forth from L7 to DD I can easily tell the difference. And that is with all formats being level matched so that every channel, every source, using any format is the same at the seat.

Well that sounds good.

How much did the Harman cost? And how many models currently available that support Logic7?

I’m going to do a video in jiff. I’ll set the surround output to the computer and play a few moments from The Empire Strikes Back THX laserdisc Dolby 4.2.4 I’d have to use the webcam for direct link from the AVR. I’ll switch from Dolby pro-logic though the various matrix surround modes Dolby pro-logic II Movie/Music and CS surround movie/music so you can hear first hand, not necessarily first hand, just first hand.

[hjames]

Well that sounds good.

How much did the Harman cost? And how many models currently available that support Logic7?

I had a Harman Kardon AVR 335 - retail was something like $700 - I bought it refurbed from Harman Direct 2 years ago, and just sold it last week for $220 ... (after I replaced it with Harman Kardon's 2006 top of the line AVR 7300)
Both of them do DTS, Dolby (many modes) as well as Logic 7 ...
AVR 335 was 70 W/ch in Stereo mode, 55w/ch in 7.1 mode -

Nice thing is you have 7 discrete channels, so you can feed each channel's preamp out to bigger amps if you want more power, like I did with my biamp system.

Made a great control system (does A/V switching as well!)

[JBL 4645]

I had a Harman Kardon AVR 335 - retail was something like $700 - I bought it refurbed from Harman Direct 2 years ago, and just sold it last week for $220 ... (after I replaced it with Harman Kardon's 2006 top of the line AVR 7300)
Both of them do DTS, Dolby (many modes) as well as Logic 7 ...
AVR 335 was 70 W/ch in Stereo mode, 55w/ch in 7.1 mode -

Nice thing is you have 7 discrete channels, so you can feed each channel's preamp out to bigger amps if you want more power, like I did with my biamp system.

Made a great control system (does A/V switching as well!)

£379 isn’t too bad. Wow £108 pounds.

Have listen to this just finished this about 15 min ago.

The Empire Strikes Back Matrix Dolby stereo 4.2.4 with various surround modes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAj2Ym0hOrk&feature=channel_page

The laserdisc is being jogged back and two while I switch from Dolby pro-logic Dolby pro-logic II movie/music and CS matrix surround modes.

[JBLAddict]

I use a fairly newHK-AVR354 for my HT (L7, L5, LC1, no sub)

problem is Logic 7 is only selectable for 2ch analog, PCM, and am/fm tuner inputs (stated clearly in the OM as well). for any newer video with dolby dig, the option is blocked out.

[JBL 4645]

I use a fairly newHK-AVR354 for my HT (L7, L5, LC1, no sub)

problem is Logic 7 is only selectable for 2ch analog, PCM, and am/fm tuner inputs (stated clearly in the OM as well). for any newer video with dolby dig, the option is blocked out.

That’s interesting maybe they should make standalone product that can be linked to any existing AVR/AVP (rather than forcing consumers to upgrade needlessly every year or so). Get the picture.

I think for most of us we trend to get too excited about a new AVR/AVP until we start sniffing around it to see if it has some kind of flaw?

I think for most of us we trend to get too excited about a new AVR/AVP until we start sniffing around it to see if it has some kind of flaw?

Between Dolby pro-logic it will isolate or try and prevent some sound signals from passing into the matrix surround depending on what is happening on the LCR front steering.

Dolby pro-logic II worked okay with dialogue pan to the front left while it was minimized in the matrix surround or simulated stereo surround. Dolby pro-logic allowed the sound to filter though with noticeable presence.

The centre location of voices was less in Dolby pro-logic while with Dolby pro-logic II it filtered though into the matrix surround.

The one thing both of these matrix circuitries can’t do is provided 100% isolation! If there is only choir voices in the surrounds on the four or six-track magnetic or digital Dolby SR-D you can sure bet its going to be smeared and covered or masked with front musical sound information that is the facts of matrix.

I think Star Wars would have sounded better with four-track magnetic in most cinemas that was able to support four-track magnetic rather than optical twin-track Dolby stereo.

The only difference would be the loss of the baby boom track that is on tracks 2 and 4 on the 70mm six-track magnetic print.

The deal was economics of the cost over producing a 35mm print over magnetic strip which is flipping costly yet it was like the Rolls Royce of sound over optical soundtracks.

Today they are looking at digital cinema to cut costs back because its cheaper to produce a digital transfer providing the cinema supports it?

So the point is which is the better sounding version the True discrete version or the Matrix version?

With the discrete version you can toy around with it in many ways (over a matrix mix) or use matrix circuitry to expand on the fronts from 3 to 5 kinder like the Todd-AO or expand on the surrounds from 2 to 5 thou we have Dolby –EX and we know how that works don’t we.

[jblsound]

I use a fairly newHK-AVR354 for my HT (L7, L5, LC1, no sub)

problem is Logic 7 is only selectable for 2ch analog, PCM, and am/fm tuner inputs (stated clearly in the OM as well). for any newer video with dolby dig, the option is blocked out.

Wasn't there a firmware upgrade to change that? If not I'll stay with my HK635, which will do L7 over any input/mode.
One thing with the 635, if I want to use dts neo6 for music via sat it has to be stereo, not DD.

On second thought, if Dolby true HD or DTS Master Audio is as good as everyone sez it is then I guess there is no reason to lay L7 over top. I don't use L7 when I play a dvd with DTS-ES.