Help on JBL Olympus S7R

[jandregg]

You should check out all the other suggestions before considering adding a ten inch. Besides the cost of the 8 or 10 inch speakers there is considerable cost in replacing your crossovers. You may have to build some of the crossover filters. It is also possible that the le-85s may need new diaphrams. I don't mean to be discouraging, but there is a lot of work involved. I personally think it is worth the effort and would gladly do it again to get the sonic improvemant on classical music.

john

[Zilch]

We're gonna add a 10" to an Olympus S7R where? See C60 Sovereign for the basic baffle layout....

[Robh3606]

Hello Zilch

If I were you I would consider selling them. Once you have decided to add a 10" you just might as well look into a 4343/ 4344. You can't do anything to the cabinets or they will loose their value. You could add a 10" in a sub enclosure above the horn but then you need to work the crossovers. Bottom line is you can clone either of these and end with what many would consider a more modern and better system. You would end up with a 2235 bottom either a 2122/2123 mid, 2420/2421/2416/2425/2426 and an 077/2405 slot. Better off with new cabinets to get the drivers in a vertical array with the 10" and compression driver at ear level.

Rob

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by gorg
Recently I obtained a pair of JBL Olympus C50 S7R Speakers. Somehow I feel mid-frequency area from classic music which S7R produces is not as warm as it does for Pop music, some metal taste, “cold” and “hard” for most string performance movement. Could it be caused by the component LE85.

My very first pair of JBLs were a pair of S7s. At first I loved the dynamic "live" sound that they presented. As time went on I became more and more disappointed with the hard metallic horn like midrange. I changed the crossover from the 500Hz second order LX-5 to a custom built 800Hz third order. It helped, but... I tried adding an 077. It helped because I could turn down the mids, but... I eventually sold them.

Originally posted by gorg
If I replace LE85 with 375 plus add additional 075, another word, could the S8R represent a better sound for the mid-frequency area from classic music?

In more recent years I bought a pair of 2441s. (the improved big brother to the LE85) I tried them on a few horns and for me personally I found they sounded the best on the 2397 horn. I used these with the 2235 and 077. I used them like this, a sort of S8, and also in the context of the 4355 with the added 12" 2202. In both cases the mids are extremely more neutral than those of an S7, S7R, L200 etc.

Originally posted by gorg
I am confused as I did research on S7R and I really could find any complain for the quality of sound which S7R produces. The legendary JBL S7R is for Pop music and is just not good for classic music????? It will be hard to believe. I hope somebody could help me out. Thank you very much!

People rarely post comments bashing a speaker that they have owned. (Bo being both exceptional and the exception in his war on the venerable L100) Compared to what I have now many people would say that the S7 sucked, but as with all good speakers, there are redeeming qualities to all of them. If I were offered a pair of S7Rs, especially in mint C50 Olympus cabinets, and I had the room for them, I would take them in a minute.

Now all of that said, your S7Rs most likely are not up to spec. They probably need to have the woofers reconed, not just new surrounds, the LE85s probably need new diaphragms too, and it is quite possible the capacitors in your crossovers are no longer in spec. To properly bring the whole system up to spec is quite costly. I would probably sell them and try something else.

If you are in love with the cabinets, I think they are very cool myself, I would go the S8R route. Do not buy mint 375 drivers. It is a waste of money. Buy ugly ones send them to JBL have them remagnetized, gaps cleaned and realigned, and new diaphragms installed. You can save even more money by buying the pro version the 2440. It will cost about $700 for JBL to refurbish a pair of 375s in addition to what you pay for the drivers. You could easily pay over $1000 for a pair of very pretty but way out of spec "red wax seals intact" 375s on eBay. I would also lean toward the 077/2405 in stead of the 075/2402.

Widget

[Mr. Widget]

"It's the best loudspeaker system that JBL makes, and that makes it pretty good.

JBL calls it the S8R system, but other people use all the words you'd expect to hear: bright, clean, accurate, dynamic, impeccable. Great presence. Great upfront sound.

And they say things you've never heard before: Absolutely perfect balance- bass, midrange and high. No compensation needed. No weak spots.

That's a lot of words, but this is a lot of speaker.

JBL S8R. It only costs a thousand dollars an ear."


From a JBL promotional brochure circa 1974.



I am not sure I would completely agree with all the hyperbole today, but in 1974 it wasn't too far off the mark.

Widget

[gorg]

Thanks everybody. It has been very educational.

Whgeiger, I will certainly check all the components in the crossover especially for the c/o components. It seems a few fine turnings to do.

Besides the validation of all the connections and components, from the communications, I have a feeling that everybody seems to agree that At 500 Hz. LE85’s does have a weak point and it seems it could be resolved by change midrange drives and horns.

Widget, could you spare some knowledge on 2440s. I know it is a professional version of 375 but is there any other difference on their sound qualities? You also mentioned you prefer 077/2405 in stead of the 075/2402. Could you please explain the difference. I am looking for a better sound quality for classical music.

I appreciate all the help you guys has been offering.

George

[John]

The 2440 is in all aspects the exact same driver as the 375
and the 2405 will reproduce the high freq, past human hearing where as the 2402 rolls off after 15,000 hz. also the 2402 has a tight pattern and the 2405 has a wide dispersion

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by gorg

Widget, could you spare some knowledge on 2440s. I know it is a professional version of 375 but is there any other difference on their sound qualities? You also mentioned you prefer 077/2405 in stead of the 075/2402. Could you please explain the difference. I am looking for a better sound quality for classical music.

There are cosmetic differences between the two, but they are electrically and acoustically identical. The 2441 is the equivalent to the 376. In general I prefer the 2441/376 to the 2440/375 as it sounds smoother to me. Both of these use the same magnet, throat etc. and a simple diaphragm change will make the driver one or the other.

I prefer the 077 to the 075 as it has a more extended HF, is less beamy, and has a more delicate sound when used properly. They are both pretty beamy though. The 077 really sounds it's best crossed over at higher frequencies. The 2441/2405 (376/077) combo works very well with a third order crossover at 10KHz. JBL used the 2440/2405 in the 4350 system by letting the 2440 run out naturally with no low pass (HF attenuation) and a third order filter on the 2405 at about 9KHz. If you are building a system that requires a lower crossover the 075 should be considered.

As for what makes a good classical speaker or a good Jazz, Pop, etc. I don't think in those terms. I think a speaker should sound good with all types of music. It is true that every speaker will sound best with certain discs while another speaker may favor other discs.

I can't be overly strenuous in my recommendation that you have the speaker components thoroughly gone over as a loudspeaker has moving parts that do wear out. They will continue to play but at a diminished capacity for years.

While I do think the LE85 is a very good 1" compression driver it really is being asked to do too much in the S7R and I am glad you picked up on that.

Good luck in your quest!

Widget

[gorg]

hello everybody, I just wnat to keep you all posted what I have done for my midrange myth.

I took me a little while to get all parts. Eventually I got everything ready, 3440, 075 and n7000.

At the same time, I cleaned up the connectors and wires. I have completed the upgrade my s7r is now the s8r.

I can not believe what the difference it made. The metal sound is gone and surprisingly the bass sounds MUCH MUCH better too. More detailed, more dynamic and more “live”. I can hear a lot of layers which I have been looking for on s7r. I also played the pop and jazz music and certainly it sounds better. Now I can say THIS IS A JBL speaker.

I want to thank you for all your help and the encouragement.

Take care you all.

George

[Bestsmurfs]

I have a pair of C-50 S8's. These speakers are not very accurate by today’s standards. They are virtually the same speakers used in stadium rock sound reinforcement during the 70’s. I thought they were pretty good until I bought an audiophile system built around B&W 804 Nautilus speakers and a Velodyne sub. I had no idea what I was missing. Although the JBL’s have many accuracy and distortion shortcomings they can’t be beat when it comes to LOUD. If you want to get a pretty good idea of what I’m talking about, compare the JBL sound to a pair of audiophile quality headphones. You will be able to identify the timbre of instruments much more clearly. I’m not trying to be a JBL basher, they just have a time and place in music.

PS: I replaced my 375’s with 2441’s and pocketed $500. I’m still shopping for 077’s to replace the 075’s I sold as well. Best of luck!

[Bestsmurfs]

I know just how you feel because that’s what I thought too! The first few times I heard audiophile speakers, I smirked and thought “they must be kidding” and with a six inch woofer??? But the truth HURTS. I have two systems and those cheap skinny B&W’s out perform the JBL’s to the point of embarrassment. The JBL cabinets add standing waves and coloration; Low frequency’s are peaky around 40hz and roll off quickly, the horns are plus or minus 10 dB and add lots of distortion (even good ones) and the 075’s roll off at 10k. Sometimes they sound great, it's just not what’s on the recording.

Try this simple test: Play ‘Hilary Hahn Bach Concertos’ on your JBL’s. If it sounds like she’s playing a chain saw and your ears are burning you need new speakers. Conceivably you can play any good solo violin recording and get the same result. I just bought 2441’s on eBay last week and of course they are shot, but it was expected at $365. Now....back to Hilary. This recording punishes any component that exhibits even a hint of harshness.

Please don’t kick me off the forum, I love JBL’s, I just found it helpful to question my brand allegiance when it comes to my passion, listening to music.

[scott fitlin]

You cant compare these two speaker brands! You just cant. B & W is great for listening to jazz, so is JBL!

They are two completely different types of sound. I love B & W 801,s the highs are extremely delicate, and its a very neutral sounding speaker to me. Great for jazz. But JBL suits my taste better when I want bold sound! Led Zeps "Kashmir" is amazing through great JBL,s!

B & W is great, but there are times when it must be heard through great JBL,s!

[Bestsmurfs]

Simply put, if the B&W 804 didn't outperform a 45 year old design there'd be something wrong now wouldn't there?

Thanks guys, I’ve just got nothing to do on a rainy day….. Those new JBL’s must sound great but they have a nasty WAF and you are right, I can’t afford them anyway. I appreciate your acknowledging technological advances and frankly JBL dropped out of the game for a very long time!

My point is some poor guy out there is trying to listen to classical music and he’s facing a long hard road if he insists on vintage JBL’s.

Have Fun!

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by Giskard

"My point is some poor guy out there is trying to listen to classical music and he’s facing a long hard road if he insists on vintage JBL’s."

I'll let them know you're worried for their well being as I run into them.

"...as I run into them."

As in, run into them in your K2-S9800 equipped Hummer?

Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Maybe there would be room for those skinny B+Ws....


Widget