JBL Performance Series

[JBLnsince1959]

As per Giskard "they don't sound like they look'

I took that to mean that they look rather Studio Series i.e. Best Buy JBL.... I certainly don't equate "audiophile" with overly polite... I think of it more in terms of holographic imaging, revealing of detail, low distortion, and tonal accuracy. Unfortunately it is frequently at the cost of dynamic presentation.

Widget

I took what he said differently. When you look at them without the grills on and stare the tit-domes, your mind thinks that they will sound metalic, hard etc....and of course they don't, just the opposite, they sound smoooooth, musical and lush ( with the correct stuff hookedup). In fact I can't listen to them without the grills on, it just messes with my mind.
How can something like looks like THAT, sound like THAT????.....

Also, let me say a few things here ( IMHO of course). These speakers are like nothing you have ever heard..period. Throw away all your experiences with other speakers, all perconceived notions, beliefs and expectations ( and I don't care if your experiences are with Cones, horns, electrostatic, ribbons, ti-series or what not), and be prepared to enter into something totally unexpected......they defy explaination.....which is why I think it took awhile for me to get use them..I had to throw away everying I have learned and heard before. but I'll try to address a few issues ( and myths) that just came up.

(surprise #1)
"I would expect that the 4430 will kick the Performance Series' butts for those brief blasts of high SPL listening that is fun from time to time."

Not all - they will do it... and with such an ease that your mouth will drop AND they do not distort!!! yes, they don't have the MID-BASS punch ( as only a 15"er will do), but pure SPL..no problem. I'm afraid to go to high with them ( for me..not the speakers)

(surprise #2)
I took that to mean that they look rather Studio Series i.e. Best Buy JBL..

Not on your life!!!! they are beautifull in form ( and function)

(surprise #3)
I certainly don't equate "audiophile" with overly polite ( I don't either)I think of it more in terms of holographic imaging, revealing of detail, low distortion, and tonal accuracy. Unfortunately it is frequently at the cost of dynamic presentation

These speakers are some of the BEST audiophile speakers I have heard, imaging, detail, low distortion, smoothness these have it way more than most AND it is not at the lost of any dynamic presentation.


as i said throw everything you have learned out the window. These puppies can play so softly AND yet all the details and sound is there..I'm playing them A LOT in the 60's and low 70's( unheard of for me), yet when the volumn goes up they just purrrr, again NO distortion, just smooth, clear and F'ing loud music.

I'll write more on this when I have a chance.. ( still pretty busy)

[Mr. Widget]

"These speakers are some of the BEST audiophile speakers I have heard, imaging, detail, low distortion, smoothness these have it way more than most AND it is not at the lost of any dynamic presentation."

I believe you and look forward to getting to hear them at some point. From what you are saying, the marketing wizards at JBL need to be let go... if these speakers can do all that and they are still not selling... the problem is in marketplace perception and distribution.

As for their aesthetics... they don't have the high end look with real rosewood or birdseye maple etc. that other speakers at their price point do. I'll take your word for it that in person they have a quality look. The difference between quality and crap is hard to tell in a photo.

Widget

[JBLnsince1959]

As for their aesthetics... they don't have the high end look with real rosewood or birdseye maple etc. that other speakers at their price point do. I'll take your word for it that in person they have a quality look. The difference between quality and crap is hard to tell in a photo.

Widget

I agree that they don't look like super quality "High-End" speakers, but neither do they look "Best Buy" crap either ( and I use the word crap loosely - I own the S312's and for the money they are really good, I like them alot). The original specs for the PS design was for modular HT I believe - and they show it. They ARE very cool looking tho as is.

I think they are on to something here, BUT, the looks, and marketing could use some BIG help. Here's what I would do if I had these.

1. Design a set of "High-end speakers" that look better - no docking - all one piece.
2: get rid of the docking binding post ( and those connectors ) and wire the tit-domes straight from the crossover.
3. Get rid of the amp inside the woofer
4. Find away to paint or color the mid-bass and mid-range so they don't look metalic ( what you see is what you hear sometimes at first blush)

I plan to do #2 and #3 myself and build new crossovers. I'll most likely start next year ( get some money first)

got to go

[Mr. Widget]

Well, there is nothing wrong with metal cones and domes when they are done well...

Both of these speakers sound fantastic.... The Revel Salon, the one on the left shares quite a lot with your Performance Series. They were both born in Northridge.

Widget

[Lancer]

the marketing wizards at JBL need to be let go... if these speakers can do all that and they are still not selling... the problem is in marketplace perception and distribution.

The JBL Marketing Department in the United States hasn't been heard from in quite some time. If you see any of them please contact Harman International. Here is a group photo for reference.

[JBLnsince1959]

Yes, they do sound fanastic! that's been one reason I've been thinking about the PS for a long time.

Of course we must be fair to all the people at JBL( except maybe the marketing people - they've blown it with alot of dealers). The PS was no more designed to be an "audiophile" speaker than the studio monitors were designed to be played in the home and I find no fault with the engineering people ( GT is still my favorite) when it comes to the PS. Yes, I'm not a fan of the connectors and extra binding posts, BUT, then the PS were designed for primarily HT and the basic design is very, very clever.

What's surprising is how good these sound in an "audiophile" setting and I'm sure that with a little tweating they will be even better.

Also, the market Landscape is ( and has for the last 5 or 6 years) changed alot. Most people now don't care about "good" sound. People will spend $7000 on big screen and then turn around and say "well, I need some speakers, what have you got for $500". Look at what's happened in CC in the last year or so. While they were never "high-end" they did have one level above BB and had some really nice $1000 to $1500 speakers ( each). Go into their stores now and they have downsized what they are showing and it's all really cheap stuff - gone is the "better" stuff.

While I'm sure that one reason they didn't sell is that no one could find them ( that would help for sure), but also, fewer people are willing to spend that much and those who are maybe looking at the more expensive "audiophile" shit. who knows?

Bottom-line for me is that I"VE GOT MINE - and I'm a happy camper.....

[edgewound]

Here's a fact...most audiophile snobs would never consider owning a JBL speaker, because from the get-go they were never considered "accurate" until the L112/4411 design was born. JBL was always considered the "California Sound" with big bass and sizzling high end, in-your-face qualities that seem to offend the rest of the world. Funny thing is, the majorty of recording studio monitors are JBL with maybe the exception of classical-music studios use of B&W and Tannoy.


Sometimes it seems to me that Harman would like to see all dealers disappear so they can sell factory direct at full retail. The differences between JBL Consumer(New York) and JBL Pro(Northridge) attitudes about the end user is astonishing. Mark Gander at Pro was elated when the two Divisions were separated. Also, with a high end speaker like Revel, there is a snowball's chance in hell that JBL Consumer speakers will ever find their way into the elite high-end channels. The snobs just laugh...and we just shake our heads in disbelief....and laugh back,when they spend $15,000 on a speaker cable that has been sprinkled with some magic dust to make the cable image better...and the cable manufacturers are laughing at their customers all the way to the bank...some people do have more money than sense.

Go figure the nutty world of audio...and "audiophiles"...he who spends the most "obviously" has a better system...right? Yeah...right

Edgewound

[JBLnsince1959]

The JBL Marketing Department in the United States hasn't been heard from in quite some time. If you see any of them please contact Harman International. Here is a group photo for reference.

Geez and all the time I thought it was these people:

[Lancer]

I plan to do #2 and #3 myself and build new the crossovers.

Build external charge coupled filters... they will "benefit immensely".

L112/4411

L110 and 4313. Close enough though, that was the general time period.

Here's a fact...most audiophile snobs would never consider owning a JBL speaker, because from the get-go they were never considered "accurate"

Yes, agreed, we've lamented that very fact since the first forum.

Sometimes it seems to me that Harman would like to see all dealers disappear so they can sell factory direct at full retail.

That wouldn't surprise me at all!

Geez and all the time I thought is was these people:

How did you find that picture! I thought that historical photo was destroyed in the earthquake.

[JBLnsince1959]

How did you find that picture! I thought that historical photo was destroyed in the earthquake.

Just lucky I guess.......

[MJC]

You're kidding right?

Anyway, do you know someone who gets a regular paycheck from Best Buy?

Maybe the implication is for MJC to get a job at Best Buy?

I'd know more than any of the clowns they have at the Carson Valley BB.
I've been told that they're putting a Magnolia HT in that BB, but it hasn't happened yet.

[MJC]

The JBL Marketing Department in the United States hasn't been heard from in quite some time. If you see any of them please contact Harman International. Here is a group photo for reference.

From what I hear from dealers around here is that JBL has shot itself in the foot, when it comes to its dealers. My take on that was that the small dealers who were selling ANY of Harman's products were continually being underminded by Harman, who would them also sell to the large chains, be it BB, CC, Sears, MW. And of coarse, the chains can and do sell for less.

[MJC]

[QUOTE=
I think they are on to something here, BUT, the looks, and marketing could use some BIG help. Here's what I would do if I had these.

1. Design a set of "High-end speakers" that look better - no docking - all one piece.
2: get rid of the docking binding post ( and those connectors ) and wire the tit-domes straight from the crossover.
3. Get rid of the amp inside the woofer
4. Find away to paint or color the mid-bass and mid-range so they don't look metalic ( what you see is what you hear sometimes at first blush)

I plan to do #2 and #3 myself and build new crossovers. I'll most likely start next year ( get some money first)

got to go[/QUOTE]

I won't be using the docking posts or the woofers. The sub1500 is a better sub, and I've already got two of them.

[MJC]

[QUOTE=JBLnsince1959
Also, the market Landscape is ( and has for the last 5 or 6 years) changed alot. Most people now don't care about "good" sound. People will spend $7000 on big screen and then turn around and say "well, I need some speakers, what have you got for $500". Look at what's happened in CC in the last year or so. While they were never "high-end" they did have one level above BB and had some really nice $1000 to $1500 speakers ( each). Go into their stores now and they have downsized what they are showing and it's all really cheap stuff - gone is the "better" stuff.
Bottom-line for me is that I"VE GOT MINE - and I'm a happy camper.....[/QUOTE]

I've told people over at AVS and other forums, that if they have a big screen TV and either crappy HT speakers or only the speakers in the TV, they've only got a big screen. It takes a very good audio system, especially the speakers, to make it a HT.
And if the speakers aren't very good at playing music, they're still crap.

[Titanium Dome]

I've told people over at AVS and other forums, that if they have a big screen TV and either crappy HT speakers or only the speakers in the TV, they've only got a big screen. It takes a very good audio system, especially the speakers, to make it a HT.
And if the speakers aren't very good at playing music, they're still crap.

Another interesting idea I run into over there (at AVS) is the idea that you can have a) good HT sound, OR b) good musical sound, BUT NOT BOTH. So guys defend their Ascends or Paradigms as "musical" while the JBLs are "great for boomy HT" and so on. I try to avoid calling people or their preferences names, but I do get tired of all the pussy speakers they throw out as "musical, magical, magnificent, mysterious." Most of 'em give up at 35 or 40 HZ, already down several dB, or they have an upper mid hump that'd shame a camel.

Where I think it all goes wrong is many of those speakers have really nice looking finishes. After all, if the enclosure looks really good, people will just say, "S#!t, those must be fine speakers. I bet they sound like a million bucks." The guy never actually has to play them, cuz they look so good.

Well, I mostly listen to music with my eyes closed or watch movies in the dark. So what do I care if there's a rosewood finish if the speaker sounds like a freakin' Boseplus?

These Performance Speakers look terrific up close and from a distance. If you get the "Black Ash" finish, the octagon shape takes you right to the heart of the matter: the beautiful, inverted dome, rubber surround, smooth, cool, special, Titanium drivers. As I tell those guys over there: "You want paper or plastic? You can get that at the supermarket. You can only get these Ti domes one place: The JBL Performance Series."

Here are the response curves of a couple of the Performance Series competitors: