Mobile Fidelity using Digital Files

[Ducatista47]

...that it appears Resonessence Labs went out of business some time ago. That explains the lack of information on the internet.

Another good thing about personal listening is the WAF not entering into it. How do the Audio-Technica's sound?

Dave is a paid tester for Qobuz and thinks highly of it. I am happy with Amazon for now. The quality seems as good as whatever they are given to work with file wise. Since I listen to a lot of newer music the quality often kicks ass. Their library is a great fit for me. A lot of the best music I have no service carries, but I have purchased extensively from those labels (like Provocateur and MA) so that is fine. I have learned to avoid 90s and 2000s remasters because they are compressed to death.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I can’t prove certainty on the compression other than the following logic.

In a digital recording the limitation is you can’t exceed 0 db or you get digital clipping. So they limit the maximum record peaks to 0 db or a bit below. The noise floor below 0 db is very good and better than an analogue tape recording.

In an analogue tape recording the opposite is true. The peak level can exceed 0db if tape saturation is acceptable. However the noise floor is the real limitation.

So re recording an analogue recording from original master tape or duplicates (for preservation purposes) the dynamic range of the digital re master is limited by the allowable noise floor of the analogue recording and the 0 db limit of the digital re recording. As you indicate is sounds compressed. Not in every case but no doubt in a number of older mastered recordings. This is probably due to compression being applied to improve the signal to noise ratio of the transfer. Of course the consumer only looks at the gold label on the packaging that says digitally mastered.

So it’s perhaps better to find a reissued analogue recording of the same tune or the same event.

I personally use two different phono cartridges. One for my AAA vinyl collection and one for everything else. They are a Keiseki Purple Heart and a Ortofon Quintet Black. I swap them with two individual arm wands on the VPI 10 inch JMW 10-3D. https://elusivedisc.com/vpi-jmw-10-3d-tonearm-armwand

While controversy surrounds hifi in either vinyl analogue equipment and digital source equipment the vinyl play back equipment is less prone to mis informed and false beliefs due to the RIAA playback requirements. No one can fib. It’s not like the old wives tales that about subjective virtues of one DA converter over another. I think it’s either Naim or Linn that are now remotely updating the FPGA’s in their equipment in the middle of the night every time the Geek in these organisations thinks he has found a better sound! Or is it every time they think their customers need a brand loyalty trigger. As they say be careful what you wish for with this kind of expensive hifi equipment.

[rusty jefferson]

...So it’s perhaps better to find a reissued analogue recording of the same tune or the same event...

I believe this is what triggered this thread, no? Many thousands (millions?) of people thought they were buying an analogue reissue of a record but that great sound they experienced was in fact a digital rip of the original analogue source, then used to create new analogue pressings. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, other than the lack of transparency, but your comment does bring us full circle.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Please, l prefer that you don’t quote a single sentence of my posts and use it out of the context of my fully established reasoning.

I wasn’t referring to Mobile Fidelity. l was referring to hi resolution digital streaming of older analogue recordings which is a different thing.

That is an A to D process.

We digressed to headfi in view of Clark’s earlier posts. So l don’t think l’ve gone full circle at all. I personally don’t have a problem with Mobile Fidelity.

What l reasoned was an originally digitally recorded piece music would sound better on hi resolution digital streaming playback such as the 24/96 standard.

That is a D to D process.

Most modern popular recordings are in fact digitally recorded and then mastered for Cd release or any of the various streaming platforms. So in theory a 24/96 re master of the original digital recording should sound very good.

But if l wanted to stream an older music like the Eagles first Album or Fleetwood Mac and listen to some Peter Green tunes they would be an A to D process and it would not necessarily sound as good as a D to D recording.

In the case of Mobile Fidelity l have not read any evidence to exactly what they did in the digital domain to their vinyl recordings. If in fact they took an analogue recording and did a digital transfer and then digital to analogue transfer then ot looks like this.

An A to D process then an D to A process.

What you don’t know is what mother they use or what 2 inch master tape they use on particular recordings unless it’s stated on that pressing.

I personally think an original analogue vinyl recording through a very good cartridge and turntable wins hands down. The caveat being it had to be a good recording!

[duaneage]

I was having a discussion with a fellow audio fan last week and i referred to myself as a practical audiophile. That defines me as someone who loves music on decent equipment that sounds good to me and maybe most people. I dont beleive in outageously expensive devices which make claims which cant even be measured. And differences so slight as to require scientific equipment to reveal are not likely to be heard by me or most people.
I've spend 40 years building, testing, using and deciding on gear to play back a variety of music. Some well recorded some not. Good artist and mediocre. And even today the advixe i give to anyone interested in stereos is to listen to a lot and buy what peaks your interest.

I still think my 4411 monitors are perfect and remain my favorite.

[rusty jefferson]

Please, l prefer that you don’t quote a single sentence of my posts and use it out of the context of my fully established reasoning.

I wasn’t referring to Mobile Fidelity. l was referring to hi resolution digital streaming of older analogue recordings which is a different thing.

That is an A to D process.

Apologies for that, however I did reread your post (#27) and don't see anything that would have lead me to believe it was only and specifically about high resolution digital streaming.

...What l reasoned was an originally digitally recorded piece music would sound better on hi resolution digital streaming playback such as the 24/96 standard.

That is a D to D process...

I would respectfully say MAY, not would. Every time an engineer puts his/her hands on an original recording there's a chance they will put their stamp on it with changes, even if it's the original engineer (even unconsciously). Most of what I hear that has been reissued, remastered, whatever, and released on 24/96 doesn't sound as good as the original 16/44, if the original had the proper attention paid to it whether originally analogue or digital source.

...Most modern popular recordings are in fact digitally recorded and then mastered for Cd release or any of the various streaming platforms. So in theory a 24/96 re master of the original digital recording should sound very good...

Agree that it should, but often don't. Have you listened to an Adele 24/96 stream? Awful.

...But if l wanted to stream an older music like the Eagles first Album or Fleetwood Mac and listen to some Peter Green tunes they would be an A to D process and it would not necessarily sound as good as a D to D recording...

Agree with not necessarily, but it COULD sound as good or better. Especially with some of today's higher quality d>a converters that can really extract resolution from 16/44 recordings.

...In the case of Mobile Fidelity l have not read any evidence to exactly what they did in the digital domain to their vinyl recordings. If in fact they took an analogue recording and did a digital transfer and then digital to analogue transfer then ot looks like this.

An A to D process then an D to A process...

This appears to be exactly what's happened based on the Post article and subsequent YouTube video with the engineers saying that's what they're doing. Again, I have no issue with it other than lack of transparency.

...What you don’t know is what mother they use or what 2 inch master tape they use on particular recordings unless it’s stated on that pressing...

Mobile Fidelity says these albums are sourced from the original Master Tapes. That's their thing. The engineers confirmed it in their video.

...I personally think an original analogue vinyl recording through a very good cartridge and turntable wins hands down. The caveat being it had to be a good recording!

I wouldn't argue this point at all, it's a personal preference. My personal preference would be for a first generation tape of an analogue recording at 30ips. Failing that, or for a digital recording, digital playback.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Rusty,

I agree and this is what makes fine stereo sound reproduction such an interesting past time.

While worthy of a thread on its own the impact of psychoacoustics cannot be underestimated on what we think we hear or don’t hear.

Once you throw these factors into the mix (sorry) it’s hardly surprising some people resort to snake oil remedies. Green felt tip pens for colouring the mains power pins green, zen stones and cones to keep your speaker leads off the floor are among the more amusing things l have seen over the years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustics

This is where Clark’s desire for Headphones has the advantage. I confess to preferring sound coming from outside my head!

Not to out done l recently engaged an expert acoustic consultant to assess my new listening room for the purpose of critical listening. No it wasn’t cheap. Following an exchange of some information he completed a modal analysis and specified a range of acoustic treatments. He made the comment my large 4345 loudspeakers were very cool! I have implemented some of the treatments over the weekend by improvisation and the difference in the listening experience is positive. Musical instruments are easier to identify and the overall listening experience is more enjoyable!

It will be interesting to see how l fair with different recording qualities?

Attached is a measurement l performed of the before treatment status to confirm the modal analysis.

Don’t ask me what it all means? But apparently the reverberation time is too long and there are some problem room modes.

[Doctor_Electron]

I remember reading an article regarding possible formats that were being considered for use in the upcoming manufacture of the "digital compact disc". Under consideration at the time, but unfortunately for the consumer dropped due to its higher cost vs. (is it 44.1K, 16 bit?), was an early variation of DSD. It is state of the art DSD that MoFi uses in their process.
The adoption of the lesser Fi format, which in general can achieve great reproduced sound when the mastering engineers know what they are doing, do it the best they can, and the end to end process includes the best efforts, care and skills of all those involved, had DSD been the format of choice there would have been very little reason to complain about the sound reproduced using that technology. It really is that good.