I was a JBL dealer back in the 70's but only for consumer product. Except for the 4311 I have had no experience with their pro models. So I'm curious. Does a 4350 automatically win because of it's size and number of drivers?What about the the other 43 models? This is just for fun but opinions would be welcome please.
I'll bite.
The comments below are for stock 43XX systems... if you take a 43XX and hot rod it with Be drivers, or modern woofers etc, that is cheating.
While I appreciate the badass look of the 4350/55 and am impressed with its ability to create audio shock and awe, I would rather own any one of a dozen or more other speakers before I took up that much real estate with the 4350/55.
I much prefer the 4345 and it would get my vote for best of the series.
I haven't heard any of the re-worked 4343 variants so I can't speak to those, but I would actually rather have the 4333A over the 4343 if for no other reason than it is smaller.
Now this is a cheat, but my favorite 43XX would be the 4365. It is not a true 43XX, but it was a damned fine speaker.
Widget
Thanks for playing along! It's hard not to be seduced by the 4 way 4345 with it's 18" woofer!Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
You do realize that if you're really looking for "accurate" sound, the 44xx series would offer more candidates. 4410, 4412, even 4411 or 4410A and 4412A would offer what your asking. But...
It certainly was for me!
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
It was called the Texas Bookshelf back in the day for a reason. JBL wanted to make a statement that it was some sort of lab reference against which all others were judged. It was the biggest bad arse of all the 43XX legacy systems. I’ve heard several including a stock 4355 in a show room. It’s really not suitable to a lowboy profile sitting on the floor. Flown and inverted they project better. If played loud l am sure the 4350 would impress.
The latest 4367 is reputed to be very good.
The 4313B was one of my favourites as far as bookshelf systems are concerned.
Back in the 70’s the 4333A and the 4343B were top flight large home systems that performed well on a descent vinyl turntable like a Linn. Very few 4345’s were manufactured. But the 4343-4344 were exported by the thousands to Japan. They worshipped those systems like gods back then and they still do today care of KenRick Sound.
Carefully set with a mic and REW a cloned 4344 or a 4345 with really good signal path are hard to beat as a diy project. Others including Troels Gravesen have been inspired enough by the 4344 to design a four way system along similar lines using top pro drivers manufactured in Europe. His comment is it stands above any other top end hifi loudspeaker he has designed. Of course if you like a HiFi Sound and expensive towers with petite 6.5” drivers then this isn’t for you.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/The-Loudspeaker.htm
Ian,I have a set of 4367's currently which I bought as soon as they were available. At the same time I owned a pair of DD-67000's but had to sell them when I retired and moved to a house that had no room for them. I miss them although the 4367 is still very satisfying giving the big live sound large JBL's are noted for.Back in the 80's and early 90's I had a set of 4430's but had no access to the pro 43 series in the 70's which is why I posted my question. The 4430's seemed to be a little less colored than say a L-300 was but still had a lot of output. In regards to DIY speakers I bought a bunch of raw JBL drivers in the late 70's. I went with dual 136A's, a 375 with a 2397 (Smith) horn, a 077 tweeter and a 12" midrange/bass driver (I can't remember the model number). I think I was trying to replicate a 4350 but with the 2397 horn which I though might sound better. Looking back on it I really had no idea what I was doing but probably though that somehow I could design a better system using JBL parts than JBL could! I bi-amped them at around 300hz and used JBL's passive networks for the rest of the system. I put the woofers side by side in a huge vented box (probably 10-12 cubic feet) and built a separate box for the 12" midrange which sat on the woofer cabinet and then put the horns on top of it. It was loud and proud and spray painted flat black but I could never get the 12" midrange to sound right (it sounded boxy in the lower midrange) so I ended up setting it off to the side and using the system as a three way. It sounded pretty good this way. Ultimately I sold them to an acquaintance who ran a nightclub. I felt kind of bad for the speakers as they ended up pumping out endless disco music for most of their life. After reading with great interest all of the information about DIY speaker projects on this site I realize how little I really know. So it's probably best for me to stick with JBL's production product although I still dream about building another pair of custom JBL speakers. JohnEdit: I couldn't get my reply to make paragraphs which makes it hard to read. Sorry.
Try the following:
I want to hear a pair of 4348s and am betting they would be right there at the top of the line. None of the prior ~10" would be competitive with the differential drive, neodymium 2251s used in these monitors and the 1500FE is no slouch.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=477067592304607
I heard the 4348’s in Japan. I don’t know why but it didn’t seem to come together subjectively. I much preferred the 4338. The horn in that system is really nice.
Zilch had a set of those 4348 horns which l heard at his home way back in 2007 with the LHS CA gang. I vaguely recall it was a centre channel with 10 inch woofers. My recollection was it was good. Zilch was a really nice guy. His threads documenting his measurements were classics. It would drive Dale nuts who’s narrative was in strict lock step with the JBL way. I dearly miss Lancer and Miss Orchid. Rob had a crush on her…Lol
It was an interesting adventure from down under. I hired a van and on the way over the bay bridge my compact camera fell off the bench seat and slide under the foot brake…..Lol
To make the 43XX system comparisons more revealing I have attached a comparison of 4343 horn response and the 4344 horn with its upgraded compression driver. These response overlays are of the drivers only without the associated networks.
For clarity I have only shown the on axis and the horizontal 10 and 15 degrees off axis response.
The divisions are 5 db in 1 db increments so this is under the microscope.
Measurement with Leap LMS and Leap calibrated mic.
Smoothing applied for clarity.
Looking at the two overlays the 2426 compression driver is smoother overall. Of more interest is that the smoothest response is 15 degrees off axis. This coincides with the JBL recommendation of up to 15 degree toe in when setting up. Ref 4344mk2 owners manual. The problem area is around 3khertz and a small off axis response corrects this. The response extends out over 10 khertz on axis but falls in the off axis measurements. Not shown here but the 9.5 Khertz crossover point appears well chosen.
The LE85 response is less smooth and exhibits a more pronounced depression at 2.5khertz. It does extent out well above 10 khertz with a bump at 12 khertz. Not shown here the 8.5 hertz crossover point appears well chosen.
The networks serve to EQ these drivers to some extent and provide a bandpass filter to restrict the response.
I haven't shown any other drivers or diaphragms because the effect of a dusted diaphragm isn't obvious in an FR response measurement. I have seen that the ribbed JBL diaphragms have significantly more break up modes than the plane domes.
If anyone found this interesting let me know.
Thanks. Hopefully those settings will allow spacing.Try the following:
They don't restore full functionality, but they help a lot!
Thanks Earl!
Widget
Would be almost easier to write up in MS World and attach a screenshot
Hi JPW;
Since Ian went in deep and it wasn’t frowned on by you, I will too.
When I was a kid we had a JBL shop in our town that had most of the 43XX series on the floor, not all at once but I did get to hear 4343’s, 4345’s and 4350’s and being young I wanted them all. I could not tell you at this point which I might have thought were the most accurate. They were dynamic as hell!
Later I acquired, in order, a pair of 4350’s, 4365’s, new, and 4333A’s. I also built a pair of kinda 4345’s. I made them 10 cubic feet based on something G Timbers said about the 2245.
For accuracy, like Widget said, the 4365’s win, but you are talking about vintage 43XX’s.
I found no real love for the 4333’s, no matter what I did. I revisit these from time to time and always just put them back in the barn.
The 4345 clones never had passive crossover components but I could never fill an energy gap, between the 2245 and 2123. That may show something missing in my integration chops. I revisit these from time to time and always just put them back away. No matter how well I can get them to measure, I am never happy with them.
My 3450’s are exactly what Widget describes as cheating.
Then 1500AL woofers from the Everest family. Four way amplified with DSP. I love them. I still take them out and out back in the open and tweak on the DSP and they just get a little better each time.
I also have a pair of DD66000’s that have 67000 woofers and crossovers in them, also in the barn.
Ironically what wins in my living room is the 4365’s with ARRAY1500 subs. Go figure.
I also have the DIY itch and my loose plan is for some spare AL1500 woofs, 2251 mid woofers, 4338 horns with 2450Sl’s and 2405’s. Hopefully they will supply my dynamics itch.
Barry.
If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.
Hi Barry,
That’s a wonderful story.
I recommend an LR 12 db 2nd order network @ 300 hertz. These particular networks are -6 db at the crossover point (acoustically in theory). The Q is about 0.50.
The big win is both drivers sum flat acoustically with revered electrical phase.
So what you actually hear is the summed response over a much wider crossover region than an BW 18 db filters or a LR 24 db filters. The transition is imperceptible in my experience.
Give it a try.
Edit. Only lightly fit the 2123 dog box with stuffing. In 14L it’s already a critically damped sealed enclosure. Adding a dog box full of stuffing behind the driver will over damp the low end and reduce the output.
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