12" Driver interaction at angles?

[Don Mascali]

I'm ready to cut wood but want to get some opinions on how these drivers will play together.

I have two E120H 12" drivers and want to put them in two boxes with 15 deg adjoining walls so that they intersect at a 30 deg angle (splayed out). One will point straight forward and the other will toe in to center at 30 deg. Their edges will be 3 1/2" in from the edge of each box, about 7" apart.

The purpose behind this is to match the dispersion pattern of the 2346 Everest horns for the front of my HT system. I am going to use 2405H slots mounted next to the horn ala Everest and two 2226H drivers below the 12"s in the same configuration as the 12"s.

Should I take some medication to clear up my thinking or am I on track?

I would love to hear input from any of our esteemed members.

TIA,

Don M

[Zilch]

Someone recently posted some Japanese monitors aligned similarly. Was that you?

Let me see if I bookmarked it....

Edit: Kinoshita, per Earl K

http://www.reyaudio.com/warp-e.html

That'd be two drivers each side, tho.

As you come off axis of the one woofer, you're come on axis of the other, similar to 2346. Note in the bottom right install they've got them aligned as you suggest, so it likely works.

I just angle single woofers under the horn in 30°. Consider the woofer beamwidth at the crossover frequency. I don't think you need the one aiming straight forward, but it sure looks cool!

[Been meaning to try it myself, actually....]

A sketch would help to be sure we're understanding your design.

[Mike Caldwell]

Hello
There would be no real benefit to splaying the 2226's as low frequencies are pretty much omni directional any way. Where are you planning to crossover into the the 12's and out of the 12's into the horns. At the lower frequencies the 12's will be a much wider pattern the the 2346 horns. Is this planned to be a center channel speaker or the a pair of speakers for front left right. The asymmetrical horn would not be the best choice for a center channel speaker.

Mike Caldwell

[Don Mascali]

Zilch;
No not me, I didn't see that thread

Mike C.
They will be left and right fronts, set close to the outer walls. I had 2344A's and wall reflections were a problem even heavily toed in.

The 2226 will be in the same box with the E120s in a sealed chamber.

X-over is 24db LR active @ 300 and any where from 850 to 1200 depending on how they sound together... The horns where used @ 850 in the 4660a cabinets they came from.

[Don Mascali]

I looked at those monitors and my thinking is pretty much the same.
The horn projects at 30 deg off axis, and the center with some mutual coupling reinforcement of the two MFs should give you a lobe at that angle. (I'm guessing at the true angle on the 12"s though). I can adjust the tweeter angle and the horn too. The Everest brochure is pretty specific about aiming everything.

I point the 2346 straight ahead and the 30 deg points aim at my prefered position while still giving the imaging they are noted for at the extremes...

I have been using the horns for awhile and I'm ready to do the big boxes now.

[Robh3606]

Let me get this straight.

You want to what??

You are trying to match the 2346, you have a 2226 in an Everest like configuration???

Where do the 12's come in?? As midranges????? On firing straight out one angled??????

I think the 12's are going to screw you up. They set the angle on the E-145 and 2405 to match the directivity of the 2346. If you have both splayed out the it won't work IMHO

Zilch those monitors were toed in not out. I think the threads in Marketplace.

I love the internet. Where the hell is the bar napkin???

Man am I confused.

Rob

[Zilch]

A pair of asymmetrical horns can obviate the necessity for a center, but for HT, a matched center would likely do a better job.

For two-channel music, however, the asymmetric defined directivity "locked image" is an effect I've very much grown to appreciate, as have you, apparently.

I haven't tried adding the tweeters for precedence compensation yet, in part because I don't understand it. I'm also leary of the combing they might generate.

As to adding the midbass, I just don't think it's necessary. Those big horns will play quite low, and 2226H woofers alone can easily meet them around 800 Hz. Getting more drivers to mesh properly seems, well, "challenging."

[JuniorJBL]

Let me get this straight.

You want to what??

Where the hell is the bar napkin???



Rob

I used it for a coster when we were done!

[grumpy]

This I gotta -see-

I'd also think a single angled 12"-er per side would be enough (and not having one face
forward could help to keep it from spraying the sidewalls with as much mid-spray)...
and since you're using an electronic crossover, sensitivity matching is probably less
of an issue, ... but what do I know.

Maybe crossfire the 12"-ers (instead of having them do the Marty Feldman) and point the pair to room center (as a thought). I don't expect sideways dual midrange drivers will help your imaging in any case. With a center channel for HT, this may be moot.

Sounds like a fun project

-grumpy

(I did try the 2226/2346/2405 thing and it wasn't magic for me... sitting on a few E145's to try in my copious free time...
they're not very comfortable)

[Don Mascali]

I have a MTM horizontal center (2123J and 2342/2416)

Most of the listening I do is to blues and rock guitar and I like the impact of the 2 E120s per side in the fudamental frequencies. I run them IB (open back) and even on orchestral strings they sound effortless. The 2 2226Hs per side go from 80 to 300hz with 2-4546C subs centered between the stacks. The horns seem to have problems at the frquencies approaching cuttoff so I don't push them very low at all. I use the slots to provide some "air" to avoid the roll off on the top. So now we have a 5 way system. I know what Zilch thinks about that.

I fully understand the problems with multiple drivers and time alignment and use electronic means to align them and set levels. I have been using something simular for a while and while many people cringe I don't hear it as a problem myself.

Too much is just right, isn't it

[Don Mascali]

Grumpy;
I use the 2 E120s per side because of the open back thing. they don't handle a lot of power that way.

[grumpy]

cool. sort of an evil-twin (think Fender) arrangement
I was just ruminating over the likelyhood of trying to match the 2346
in directional characteristics.

-grumpy

[Don Mascali]

That Evil Twin thing is what got me thinking originaly, What was I trying to reproduce? Sounded like a good idea at the time.


It looks like I didn't look as close as I should to the pictures, I just read the blurb.

I seem to remember reading that it was bad practice to cross drivers like that. Interlacing ripples like in pond water interfering with each other.

I could do that with the inside drivers facing straight ahead and the outside ones turned in @ 30 deg?

[Robh3606]

I used it for a coster when we were done!

Damn!, And all that hard work



How high are you going to run the 120's??? Take a look at the polars and what the horns are doing between 1K to 8K. The radiation pattern changes to help counter the proximity effect as you move off center. You want to stay away from that region with other drivers.

Rob

[Zilch]

It's hard to believe that they don't interact.

And the higher the frequency, the worse it becomes, no?

I'd have to do a polar waterfall on CLIO to document it.

[Not THIS week.... ]

I could do that with the inside drivers facing straight ahead and the outside ones turned in @ 30 deg?

Yes, but I just don't see the necessity or desireability of having the paired drivers there when the singles will work just fine, most likely....

So now we have a 5 way system.

I know what Zilch thinks about that.

I think I need to go lay down for a bit. I'm feeling somewhat queezy from the contemplation, even....