4430-4435 Revisited- A short story

[Ian Mackenzie]

Wow,

Excellent stuff

Ian

[Zilch]

-This mkII topolgy is what I'll use if I ever combine my surplus le14h woofs with my 2426/2344 horns.

- The network also holds good promise in getting the 2344 combo to perform down at 800 hz. ( I was able to achieve a minus 5 db down point at 800 hz without much tinkering of my main LC elements ).

-Matching the 4430 will require a rework of the lpad / that will therefore entail a reworking of all other LC values ( exluding the notch filters ).

- From my perspective ; an adapted N3100mkII network should be considered near the top of the list ( if not the top ) when one is using that driver/horn combo .

You spec it ... I'll build it....

[4313B]

- The network also holds good promise in getting the 2344 combo to perform down at 800 hz.

The 2425/2344 is already stressed at 1 kHz with the 2235H so you want to go higher not lower.
1.2 kHz with an LE14H-1 or LE14H-3 and perhaps 1.35 kHz with a 1200FE, 2206H or 2204H.
Like Greg has stated before, the 1200FE is really nice.

[Earl K]

The 2425/2344 is already stressed at 1 kHz with the 2235H so you want to go higher not lower. 1.2 kHz with an LE14H-1 or LE14H-3 and perhaps 1.35 kHz with a 1200FE, 2206H or 2204H.

- Yes, you're right. I've even seen fairly loose "wave-cresting" of moderate level Pink Noise in that FR area / on that horn/driver/xover combo.
- I'll hope that those people who want to make a 4430 knockoff will follow your advice. I suspect they may sometimes play things at a louder level than I do. And that'll really initiate a lot of unnecessary distortion within that specific FR area.
- Maybe Zilch would do up a CLIO study and show us the distortion ( using the lower Xover point )

( Now ; )
- The actual likelyhood of the described project ( being realized ) is pretty remote in the big scheme of things / though / if I managed to get to that point and I didn't like what I heard ( ie; distortion caused by the lower xover point ) / then I'd abandon the horn/driver combo and shelve the project ( till I could get a bigger horn or longer throat adapter built to accomodate a larger diaphragmed driver - which is my actual preference ) .

Like Greg has stated before, the 1200FE is really nice.

- Yes, I suspect this would be yet another aquaplased woofer, that I would very much like .

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Earl,

Unfortunately I no longer have my 2344's and they are now with Cyclotronguy so I can't induge myself.

Kent (Cyclotronguy) may wish look at your work / study and pursue it. Other than that Rob might be interested in this alternative arrangment.

regards

Ian

[spkrman57]

Maybe 1.2khz to 1.6khz crossover possibilities.

Problematic to me would be 2226 efficiency might be more than 2426/2344A could keep up with.

I just got a pair of 2344A's and will try in near future, after my other projects get further ahead first.

Ron

The 2425/2344 is already stressed at 1 kHz with the 2235H so you want to go higher not lower.
1.2 kHz with an LE14H-1 or LE14H-3 and perhaps 1.35 kHz with a 1200FE, 2206H or 2204H.
Like Greg has stated before, the 1200FE is really nice.

[Robh3606]

Problematic to me would be 2226 efficiency might be more than 2426/2344A could keep up with.

I just got a pair of 2344A's and will try in near future, after my other projects get further ahead first.

Ron

Hello Ron

The only issue you may have is the energy in the last octave. Figure the 96 Db sensitivity of the 4435 is real close to the limit where you can attenuate the midband response and still have useful output from 10-20K. As long as you don't go to far beyond that you should OK. The 2425 can easily keep up SPL wise.

Rob

[spkrman57]

Also, my version will be 16 ohm as I have already the 2226J and 2426J drivers to use.

Just need to build the cabinet and crossover for it!

In a few weeks I should have some progress to report on this adventure!

Ron

[Ian Mackenzie]

The 2425/2344 is already stressed at 1 kHz with the 2235H so you want to go higher not lower.
1.2 kHz with an LE14H-1 or LE14H-3 and perhaps 1.35 kHz with a 1200FE, 2206H or 2204H.
Like Greg has stated before, the 1200FE is really nice.

Zactly.

Pity about the warranty though.

One of the things you need to be mindful of is that the waters get muddied with the issue of commercial agenda's where a member pops up ocassionally with a bright idea and tells you everything you want to hear and not want you need to know. ie distortion measurements and what a manufacturer recommends as a minimum crossover point.

A lot of vendors are selling Ribbons this way. The nature of the distortion at the frequencies involved is such that they think it sounds good until compared to a quality dome tweeter( ref Zaph Audio measurements)

So when I have cleared some current projects (in a few months) I will run some measurements to invesigate what is more important..distortion or damping resonances or a smooth response or diaphragm excurcision. Throw into the mix the exponential reactance.. ....are they all related?

It might be easier just to use another horn and a lot a people go that route.

On the face of it moving the crossover point upwards is the easy way out and also helps directivity at the lower end of the horn. Perhaps some drivers perform better than others? It would be useful to explore this.

I also propose to attempt running some compression drivers including a 2426, Tad 2001 a driver used by Earl geddes the from a current source amplifer to iron out some of those links.

This will dove tail with the two way project I have going elsewhere which is at box stage at the moment.

I always believe diy should be fun and not about expensive jewellery.

If you ask a manufacturer how many units he sells with the most expensive parts (jewellery) he will tell you very few but the illusion and hype attracts the customers and it requires the least effort to line his pockets.

Diy is not an exclusive club where you have to be up sold to be a member. So leave the jewellery to the toffey nosed infantile egomaniacs.

The reality is besides the law of diminishing returns a properly engineered product is never the most expensive model on the shelf but requires the most effort to get to market. Its no surprise it pays the wages. The same applies to diy in that performance /pleasure does not come from wild expenditure but something that has been carefully thought out.

[4313B]

Pity about the warranty though.

It's absurd.

Evidently it makes perfect sense to some. "The five year warranty only covers complete systems. We are no longer in the component business."
And evidently it doesn't make any sense to others. "Further evidence of the downward spiral."

[stephane RAME]

AES - volume 31 -June 1983

http://www.pispeakers.com/AES_v31_n6_p408.pdf

[Ian Mackenzie]

It's absurd.

Evidently it makes perfect sense to some. "The five year warranty only covers complete systems. We are no longer in the component business."
And evidently it doesn't make any sense to others. "Further evidence of the downward spiral."

I still think the LE14-4 or the 1200FE make a beautiful sound even on a bad day.

There are still a few 2344s kicking around in cyber space.

I have lots of plans and not enough time.

I guess if I bought a pair and you ran them for 90 days they would have to be good!!

Let me think about it.

Ian

This week has been difficult, too many 11 hour days so if I appear intolerant forgive me

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Stephanie,

Yes the whoe directivity thing versus loading the driver has caused a degree of insanity for those who like to keep horns compact.

The K.B.Keele paper is also very interesting (CE)

Ian

[stephane RAME]

Hi Ian,
I had a pair of 4430 for 14 years with me, very good model, a little hard to drive, very good memories.
Best regards.
Stéphane

[kilgoretrout]

lololol

i now will officially call it the donut power thingy from this day forth

Anyone who can combine Towlie and Morbo into one id is a hero in my book. Maybe I should just get a little high.