What can cables do?

[Robh3606]

So i guess im confused...

About what?? There are several ways to look at this wire debate just like anything else in audio. Some will tell you heavy some light, some bi wire, some will say use 12 gage as it doesn't matter. How do your speakers sound to you now?? That's all that matters. If you want to experiment go ahead have fun. You have plenty of ideas here just go with what makes the most sense to you and maybe try something that doesn't. Your talking what 2 6ft runs of wire. This isn't rocket science and it's not like you can't change things down the road. The only way your are going to miss the boat is if you put too much importance into what should be a rather simple decision. Just relax and enjoy your rig.

Rob

[LowPhreak]

spwal -

Try what cable you have to see what sounds best to you, as Rob basically said.

I don't know who this Paul Speltz of anticable is, but if he's telling you to buy WalMart cable, why is he making/selling audio cable at all?

[JuniorJBL]

If you have access to some cat5 or 5e wire (try to get the Teflon insulator) then use 1 run per + -. you can also match color and use color for one polarity and white for the other.

These usually sound pretty good. I say this because this type of cable is inexpensive. and easy to get.

This should be an easy experiment. That is what others are saying. I would try anything that is lying around before going and spending money That could be better used elsewhere.

I would say do not fall into the wire trap. Find out for yourself, I did. I had some very expensive wires here in my house (AudioQuest Kilimanjaro) and I could not find enough of a difference between mine and that one. They also cost (Retail) $10,000.
No way!! just be objective to what you like and really listen for anything that you like about it's sound.

It should also be fun to try different wire so you can listen for yourself!!

[coherent_guy]

That's because Jim was building low Q transducers and they ended up in alot of incorrect volumes.

This is the easiest webpage to link to at the moment. He goes through the whole resistor ploy.

http://www.birotechnology.com/articles/mass.html

(The JBL model 124/2203 was a fun transducer to add series resistance to due to it's extremely low Qts of 0.14)

Here's the driver in the linked example. Red is no resistor in series and green is the resistor in series. It's very easy to see why some people would prefer the response of the green curve.

Giskard's post makes my point better than my previous one does, that is there are some basic electrical phenomenon that influences the resulting FR a driver or loudspeaker creates with the amplifier and cable interface (not to mention the room!) Although I would imagine that Giskard would not consider the affect of adding resistance with low Q speakers to be very complicated or exotic technically, many average Joe "audiophiles" (myself included) are not aware of these things. That is how the snake-oil cable business survives and thrives, and other areas of the audio biz too. This causes me to consider, how can I carry on a meaningful discussion on this topic (not to mention others) if I really don't know what I'm talking about. At least I am learning . . .

[LowPhreak]

Different cables DO "sound" different from each other. Based on my own experience with many components over many years, there is no one that can tell me that's not true.

BUT, most often those differences are not enormous and dramatic. They are usually small to detect, akin to raising/lowering the "Mid" or "High" pots on my 4412's by +/-1 or 2dB...that sort of thing. Certainly the differences IMO are not worth spending thousands of dollars to get a cable that does it. Inexpensive cables can do the same job.

But then, there are plenty of people with more money than brains.

[Thom]

That's because Jim was building low Q transducers and they ended up in alot of incorrect volumes.

This is the easiest webpage to link to at the moment. He goes through the whole resistor ploy.

http://www.birotechnology.com/articles/mass.html

(The JBL model 124/2203 was a fun transducer to add series resistance to due to it's extremely low Qts of 0.14)

Here's the driver in the linked example. Red is no resistor in series and green is the resistor in series. It's very easy to see why some people would prefer the response of the green curve.

Let me begin by acknowledging my engineering shortcomings and asking you to humor me at my level. I don't understand the two curves because they actually show more output at one point with the resistance in series, unless I misunderstand and they don't represent absolute values. (if I use wrong terminology but you can still understand then please put up with me, it's not intentional) I do understand how it could cause a curve the shape that is shown. Because math is not my strong suite ( I'm still looking for that actually) isn't it basically a matter of the higher the impedance rises in the driver the less significant the resister is and the lower it falls the more significant? If not then I guess Ill have to go back to the beginning, but that has to have an effect. You have created a voltage divider with one side dependent on all the things that effect the impedance of a speaker.

[4313B]

I don't understand the two curves because they actually show more output at one point with the resistance in series, unless I misunderstand and they don't represent absolute values.

The curves I posted were normalized so one can easily see the system balance change. Here's the actual amplitude response. Obviously the overall sensitivity will drop with the resistor in place (green).

[Thom]

Thank you, Makes total sense.

[Rolf]

I like to point out again that a cable should not do anything to the sound. I believe that is the quest.

Of course a cable can have a sound of itself, make a difference, compensating something one of the other equipment in the setup.

[glen]

OK, This thread is hitting the limits of my understanding of physics, but I am loosening my grip on "12 gage zip cord is as good as anything out there" attitude.

1. The effect of adding resistance in series with a speaker increases bass output by reducing damping. Isn't this just allowing the speaker system resonance to ring more, while increasing "bass overhang" and softening transient response, giving a bassier, but less accurate rendition of the electrical signal it is getting from the amp?

2. Wouldn't the "undamping" effect of added resistance only be helpful with drivers of very light moving mass paired with a low impedance output (transistor) amplifier and that modern woofers with heavier moving mass would benefit more from big, low resistance cables that would allow the maximum damping factor?

3. The lowered impedance of multi twisted pair cable would seem to be more of a factor at higher frequencies. In the case of bi-amp or tri-amp systems is there a point where the lower impedance is no longer a benefit? Below 300Hz? 500Hz? 800Hz?

[LowPhreak]

I like to point out again that a cable should not do anything to the sound. I believe that is the quest.

Of course a cable can have a sound of itself, make a difference, compensating something one of the other equipment in the setup.

That's the "ideal" (cable adds no sound of it's own), but it will never be the reality - unless you can find a way to connect 2 components without changing the resistance, capacitance, and inductance in any way, and without picking up stray RFI/EMI through the connection.

"Wireless" is not the answer either, as the conversion adds more crap to the final signal than a good cable does.

[Zilch]

#3 - same (~6 ft.) Cat5e cable, all conductors together, top, and splt, solids vs stripes, bottom.

Split, the total path length is double, with half as many conductors, so the baseline impedance is 4x. 0.04/8 = 0.5% of speaker impedance.

[louped garouv]

"Wireless" is not the answer either, as the conversion adds more crap to the final signal than a good cable does.

I saw an ad for wireless PA speakers the other day....

fine print advertised it good down to 70Hz....

[coruphius]

i understand all the basics about speakers and stuff, but dont understand all the tech about all the 'pimped up' speaker cable. i kinda do understand about the thicker the cable, the easier the current flows (i think thats right) i havnt really picked up really any audible difference from speaker cables, but maybe i slight difference in loudness or maybe thats just my ears..

the cables i use for my system are 15 amp extension cable for my jbl 2225H subwoofers and 10 amp extension cable for my mains, centre and surrounds. i think that does the job..

[LowPhreak]

I saw an ad for wireless PA speakers the other day....

fine print advertised it good down to 70Hz....