Exposing the Speaker Wire myth

[tom_h]

Biwiring is based on a sound electrical idea. By running seperate wires to each speaker crossover section you reduce noise coupling between the two sections and this gives a cleaner sound.

The main idea is that energy stored in the crossover comes back out at some later time and this creates a noise current. Biwiring puts each crossover leg in parallel with a very low amplifer output impedance and the noise current is effectively shorted out. Without biwiring a part of the noise current flows through the other crossover leg and creates a voltage across its circuit elements. This smears the sound.

Or something like that, the details are lost in the mists of time. My EE training happened many decades ago and I don't remember the whole story.

You don't need theory though, it is simple enough to try and the results are audible. It works. Wire is cheap.

[Hoerninger]

You don't need theory though, it is simple enough to try ...

Turn on an electrical heater, the light will dim. This will not happen with different power lines (in the walls).
Similarly this can happen to the tweeter, when the woofer is playing loud enough.
_________
Peter

[Ian Mackenzie]

I think to has to do with modulation of the a/c current fields .

In a thick inductive cable it might have some effect

I also think some amps are cable sensitive to the reactive effects of the cables

Pull a very small inductor on the output of an amp and see what happens

Ian

[JBL 4645]

Copper was the backbone of the telco industry for many years.
Even today, there is still a lot of copper in place ...

I got a smashing idea take a ladder place it against the (telegraph pole) climb up and cut the line then set the ladder up on the other end and cut that end off. Now you have some speaker cable, just make sure you do this at night-time and don’t get caught.

[Russellc]

Even if you dismiss the notion that there are audible differences between differing types of brand-new cables, there's a huge spectrum of longevity among different types of cables. So, even if you believe that all wires of a certain gauge would sound alike when new, once they're aging things can certainly change.

Just for a small sampling of my background in this subject, here's a short synopsis of my history dealing with wiring day-to-day:

~1984-1986 serviced school & church sound & signalling systems ranging from the 1900s up to the 1980s, working for a company that had the service contract for the NYC Board of Education schools continuously since the 1940s. LOTS of servicing of cables & connections that failed over time, along with many instances of cabling that lasted just fine & tested within spec decades later. We're talking VERY long runs through city-block sized schools and cathedrals, buldings that often shut down their climate controls systems when not in use (if they even have them, often it was just steam heat at best).

~1986-1988 serviced, modified & installed high-end AV systems, mostly systems from the 1970s & 1980s.

~1988-1989 back at the school & church systems, re-visiting the same sites.

~1989-2000 auto & marine communications systems - here's where you REALLY see the difference in quality cabling. Many clients/fleets were repeats or corporate accounts, so many systems were removed, inspected & re-installed over the 11 years I worked there.

~2000-2007 serviced, modified & installed high-end AV & networking systems, ranging from the 1970s to current, even a number of AV systems from the previous stint of work from the late '80s.

Essentially, it makes a difference. I've sampled thousands and thousands of installations, from climate-controlled penthouse apartments to ocean-going tugboats. Some cables will survive in both, some cables will fail in both. Some, like certain hardware-store-special drop lights & extension cords I've seen employed as speaker cable, will have green & gooey conductors the day you take them home from the store & strip the "insulation" back.

je

I think you've put it best. I notice a difference, but no difference I've heard is worth 100 bucks a foot and so forth. I have had great results with radio shack speaker cable........for a while. Then you could see it turn green through the insulation when the sound "changed" for the worst.

I have some pairs of expensive Tara cables I bought back in the day, and the still havent turned green, and I notice a no difference in sound from when they were new. Now those cable cost 10 bucks a foot back then, and thats ridiculous. I have also made speaker cables from plenum cat 5 braids for WAY cheaper that sound just as good as the Taras, havent turned green after several years.

Good cabling can make a difference, but it isnt worth the sort of money some of these guys peddle them for.

Recently I am trying cheap, i.e. monster and dayton, which look like the Radio shack, but are said to be oxygen free. Been a while, no signs of turning green yet, and sound fine. Also cheap!

Russellc

[SEAWOLF97]

I got a smashing idea take a ladder place it against the (telegraph pole) climb up and cut the line then set the ladder up on the other end and cut that end off. Now you have some speaker cable, just make sure you do this at night-time and don’t get caught.

The meth boys are waay ahead of you on that ..they get into power sub stations and try to cut LIVE wire for the copper (only 1 time tho)

In fact they got up on a freeway caution board and cut the fiber optic, thinking (?) they were getting copper. We wake up and traffic signs and small bridges and high school bleachers are missing in the morning....ultimate recyclers.

[JBL 4645]

The meth boys are waay ahead of you on that ..they get into power sub stations and try to cut LIVE wire for the copper (only 1 time tho)

In fact they got up on a freeway caution board and cut the fiber optic, thinking (?) they were getting copper. We wake up and traffic signs and small bridges and high school bleachers are missing in the morning....ultimate recyclers.

WTF! Tom, are you telling me some gang went out on an act of sabotage! LMAO

[SEAWOLF97]

WTF! Tom, are you telling me some gang went out on an act of sabotage! LMAO

No Ashley, you misunderstand....the meth (methamphetamine) addicts are nuts...they will do anything for money to buy more meth...they have discovered metal recycling...so at night they steal just abt any unguarded metal and take it to the scrapyard for money...happening all over this state. been going on a couple of years now.

In the morning ...stop signs GONE ..kids go to school baseball games, sit in the metal bleachers and they collapse, as the meth heads have stolen all the bolts, bridges are missing guard rails, stealing catalytic converters (mufflers) off vans - while driver is inside church,,,, etc,,etc. ITS CRAZY..!!!

Here's a guy in Florida stealing a lamp post ..

http://www.nbc6.net/news/17035637/de...s=ami&psp=news

[jcrobso]

Biwiring is based on a sound electrical idea. By running seperate wires to each speaker crossover section you reduce noise coupling between the two sections and this gives a cleaner sound.

The main idea is that energy stored in the crossover comes back out at some later time and this creates a noise current. Bi wiring puts each crossover leg in parallel with a very low amplifier output impedance and the noise current is effectively shorted out. Without bi wiring a part of the noise current flows through the other crossover leg and creates a voltage across its circuit elements. This smears the sound.

Or something like that, the details are lost in the mists of time. My EE training happened many decades ago and I don't remember the whole story.

You don't need theory though, it is simple enough to try and the results are audible. It works. Wire is cheap.

As others have stated Bi Amp can be very beneficial. The practice of bi wiring is to use the same amp output but use different wires for the low and the high. As you stated the output impedance of the amp is very low, in solid state amps it is usually less that one ohm, it is higher in tube amps.
This extremely low impedance will short out any voltage coming back from the speaker. As for two sets for speaker wires, it's you money.
Beware of Emperors New Cloths Syndrome! John

[Doctor_Electron]

Here is a link from Drew Daniels' Sound Path Labs Sitemap ( http://drewdaniels.com/sitemap.html ) titled "AUDIO STRICTLY FOR LAUGHS".
http://drewdaniels.com/badreligion.html

I worked with a dude, Jon, who not only contracted the dreaded (dreaded AFAIC) "More you pay for _____ , the better your system sounds" syndrome, but also happened to have a very wealthy father who tended to accomodate ($$$) him with his whims.
He returned to work one Monday after going to an Audio Show somewhere, with a $500+ pair of preamp to power amp "interconnects".
I think that says it all (but I could be wrong).

BTW, that was $500+ [1983] Dollars!

[jeenie67]

It's Sunday morning, I roar some classical vinyl and couch-potato-it with the laptop. I read every entry to this topic and agree with most of your responses. I constructed interconnects ( traded some bookcases of mine for this material from the chemistry department) from clear polyurethane .125 ID tubing wrapped ( VSR drill motor ) with cat5e, at 45 degree crosshatched, solid copper 24 gauge wire. Terminations were Neutrik XLR's. This assembly was fished through another section of .375" identical matt tubing. Flexible and durable. All connections were soldered with high content silver, solder. My speaker cabling is constructed of four, 12 gauge solid copper core house wiring strands similarly wrapped and terminated direct to the x-over networks (for now, going active this week). Total time and materials: less than two hours and about $25. Seems to agree with some of the text entered here.

[hjames]

I constructed interconnects from clear polyurethane .125 ID tubing wrapped ( VSR drill motor ) with cat5e, at 45 degree crosshatched, solid copper 24 gauge wire.
Terminations were Neutrik XLR's.

My speaker cabling is constructed of four, 12 gauge solid copper core house wiring strands similarly wrapped and terminated direct to the x-over networks (for now, going active this week). Total time and materials: less than two hours and about $25. Seems to agree with some of the text entered here.

Pictures!! please ...

[jeenie67]

Hey !! Here ya' be. It's a good thing I'm small and able to hump it over the M14 to the backside of the cabinetry. It is angled off square from the room about 12 15 or so degrees. Standing waves you say? Indeed! I say I can lay down dead center and 90 degrees perpendicular between my speak easies on a couch I built and see the boob tube nicely too...dead center and perpendicular.

[jeenie67]

Howdy. I may have this stuff listed here in the market place, but for a really good person, I could always slice off a chunk. Just pay for the shipping. I think I have some 300 feet of it. This is what I used inside the interconnects. I only use four strands of eight 24 gauge, cut off two, and use the last two as an extra, kinda' like a, RFI inhibitor. I live right next to a superhighway full of semis yackin' on their radios ( they're cool people) as they enter the outer suburban ring through a maze of interchanges. I also am in the flight paths of Buffalo International Airport. And a big microwave tower is in plain sight through my living room window. When I fire up the system, crank all the knobs up full power....FULL ENERGY!!! as a C movie sed'...put a disc in the player, but heaven forbid...DO NOT HIT PLAY !! ....I have to put my ear next to the speaker to hear the hiss.

[jeenie67]

And add to this run: Permatex electrical contact paste....goop....Vaseline with conductive something in it. When I worked at a car dealership years ago I was given a tube of this stuff. Put it on all my trucks light socket connections and ignition contacts. Used to power it through mud and water that would climb into the cab through the open windows....so much filthy fun! Never blew a bulb when fording the floods that occur in our underpasses and generally everywhere there's a waterway. Never even come close to stalling the vehicle either...cops used to give me a hard time for not obeying their orders....aye!, this is nothing!...ok, please sir, I'm sorry....yeah! Had it for years...forgot about it. Have some still, but can't read any of the label anymore. I forgot to mention that I put girls nail polish on the contacts after I solder them. Electric red metalflake.