My Eldorado, My Life!

[scott fitlin]

Did I win something? A JBL cap like the Japanese guy was wearing, maybe?

You can mail my prize to;

Eldorado Auto Skooter
c/o Scott Fitlin
1216 Surf Av
Bklyn NY, 11224.

Thank you, It has been a pleasure to participate in this wonderful contest!

[Fred Sanford]

Did I win something? A JBL cap like the Japanese guy was wearing, maybe?

How 'bout this? A little outdated, but never worn:

http://www.audioheritage.org/photopo...74&ppuser=2074

If that's a legit address, I'll see if I can send it out Monday. Size = Lg. Let me know.

je

[scott fitlin]

Yes, it is my legit buisiness address, that a dated shirt for sure!

Cream! Lemme see, I was about 7 when I was listening to them on 8 track, 1969.

[Titanium Dome]

How 'bout this? A little outdated, but never worn:

http://www.audioheritage.org/photopo...74&ppuser=2074

If that's a legit address, I'll see if I can send it out Monday. Size = Lg. Let me know.

je

Very generous of you. Couldn't you just drive it over there, then report back on kind of business Scott's running there on Coney Island?

I think the marketing slogan is "Bump Your Ass Off."

[scott fitlin]

I run the BEST Bumper cars in the World! They are FAST, we sound great, we got a light show, and you can Bump Bump Bump your ass off!

I learned audio ( JBL and Altec and Gauss, and McIntosh and Crown ) in here, I learned how to spin music and move the crowd and make them feel things, I learned HOW to do buisiness, I learned LIFE in here.

We have been here since March 1973! And we have always had JBL and Altec, and we still do!

In all fairness to JBL, because I do bitch a bit about things I dont love, I must admit, JBL and Altec, the GREAT American audio speakers made us famous for our sound! What it does, it just couldnt have been without them! So, thank you JBL, and Altec for making products that have lasted, and stood the test of time by being the best, and today still, THE BEST sounding!

My stuff like the 2395/2441,s and 2402,s have been going strong and outsounding ANYTHING else, since 1979-1980. If that isnt the testament of a lifetime, I dont know what is!

[Zilch]

YES!!

We want a "Bumper World" audio review!

[Phil H]

Is this it

[Fred Sanford]

Very generous of you. Couldn't you just drive it over there, then report back on kind of business Scott's running there on Coney Island?

I think the marketing slogan is "Bump Your Ass Off."

Y'know, I hadn't put the pieces together in my head until now...I've definitely visited this fine establishment. My first job out of school was with Fidelity Sound, who had the contracts to maintain the NYC Board of Ed school sound systems since about 1948 (what a stock of tube gear in that basement! Lots of Altec stuff, too.). When we'd work on the local schools, we'd always stop in at the bumper cars on our break. I may have to make delivery in person after all.

je

[scott fitlin]

Time for a reality check.
Of the people who are complaining about JBL not launching their $60,000 flagship speaker in the US, how many of you had intended to purchase them but have changed your mind because they were introduced in Japan instead?

Sales and recognition in the US high-end audio market, with some exceptions, seems to me to be based on placement on the Stereophile recommended components lists and purely subjective reviews in obscure audio journals, where they also review such things as magical Shakti stones and $30,000 speaker cables. For the most part, the people in the US who are going to spend $60-150,000 on speakers are doing it to impress their friends and business partners rather than basing their decisions on sound engineering principles and measurably superior sound quality and distortion levels.

Apparently people in the Japanese and European market value excellent engineering more than people in the US market, and most importantly are willing to pay for it, so JBL chose to build their new flagship speaker for a couple of people who will actually buy them. Honestly, $60,000 is probably too inexpensive for somebody who is considering buying a $175,000 pair of Wilson Audio Alexandrias, because it doesn't provide enough snob appeal.

For the US high-end market Harmon has apparently found the right style and price range with their Revel line of speakers, a brand name not diluted with 1" $25 computer speakers.

I would state confidently that the majority of consumers under 30 years of age, in the US, have no idea that JBL even produces high-end home speakers, or even have any interest in speakers bigger than the ones they use with their IPODs.

If you want JBL to offer high-end speakers in the US, put your money where your mouth is, stop buying antiquated vintage components, and buy some Project Arrays.

The reason I come here, and I'd guess a lot of other people do, is because I want the best sound I can get for my money, I like to make things with my hands, and I can't afford to buy state of the art new, but I can afford to approach it with slightly used parts that I can buy on ebay. I'm greatful that JBL offers any kind of replacement cones or diaphragms for 30 year old speaker parts that allow me to purse a hobby that I couldn't do with any other speaker brand that produces state of the art products. Obviously JBL is doing something right if they can still get money from management to even attempt to produce a flagship speaker in this century. How long do you think they would stay in business to provide your 2441 diaphragms if all they offered was $60,000 speakers to people like us?

You know Tim, I love the vintage JBL sound. But, it was in the early 90,s that the JBL sound began to change. We are talking JBL Pro, and we used alot of it, both here in NYC and Miami.

You should know that at one point in time, you went out and bought JBL period.

I wasnt alone in the fact that many just couldnt get with the new sound of JBL, or lack of!

Years ago, you bought JBL for their punchy, tight sounding bottom, explosively dynamic mids, and lightning highs.

Im glad JBL still exists, but the real reason people buy so much antiquated vintage stuff is because they found out IT DID sound like ALL THAT! And, they havent been able to find modern day counterparts that equal that sound, let alone surpass it! Different Sound? Yes, thay have Different Sound available everywhere! But, NOT the SAME Sound!

Rermember this, you hear something, you like it, or you dont like it. Your ears will NEVER lie to you, BUT, the salesman ALWAYS will!

I take more than a bit of pride in my sound, I love it when the tech types, and younger generation comes in, and are like OMG, how do you get it to sound like that? Remarks like " Its SOOO clear ", or " Wow, that sounds like real music " arent uncommon to me!

You wanna talk about how much stuff I have that didnt outsound my fav vintage stuff?

Maybe you dont remember when JBL told us that Titanium diaphragms were better sounding than aluminum, AND that aluminum was too easy to break! Then JBL turned around in the late 90,s and told YES, Aluminum sounds better, and it is actually quite strong and robust. I had been saying aluminum sounded better all along, but what kind of confidence do you really want me to place in what they tell me when I have already caught them in lie after lie? But, hey, its OK, right, all in the American game of FAIR marketing!

Tim, you NEED to come here, and here what comes out of my Altec 421-8LF,s VOTT loaded and 2395,s with 2441 drivers. MIND BLOWING! Sounds, well, it sounds REALISTIC! I was playing Dr. Buzzards Original Savannah Band- Sour and Sweet, the other night, man you you should hear the sax, AND, the crack of a rimshot on the snare drum, little percussions in the background, an organ note just hanging in front of the speakers sounding like a Hammond really sounds and Cory Dayes svelte voice! Then, I played Madonna-Live To Tell! What can I say, the music is emotional, something I dont hear in sound systems anymore. Pink Floyd? Been using that to pluck a few peoples feelings too!

I know what I hear when I hear it, and I know what I like! Not only that, I got guys working for me in the 18 to 24 year old range, they just look and ask questions like " Why " do these old speakers sound so good? They thought it was junk, but, they tell me they never heard anything that sounds like this!

Whens the last time you had a real home cooked meal, and compared this to the pre prepared take out foods you pop in the microwave?

FWIW, I have been using a BSS 366t DSP xover on my full range too! Got it really good, just NOT AS GOOD as the BEST analog, not as fluid sounding an still a bit synthetic on the top end, and lacks the richness and warmth in the lower registers. I AM GOING BACK to my BEST Urei 525!

[Ducatista47]

Scotty, when do you think the last vintage sounding JBL's were marketed? I don't know because I haven't heard enough of this gear live in person. Is the pro side in the same shape as the home side? Do the current crop of installed sound units lack the classic JBL punch/clarity/dynamics 1-2-3?

I was dragged to a nightclub dance floor recently (designated driver) and the 18" (I think) Yamaha subs were unbearable. Maybe the current JBL's are still better than the competition...

Thanks, Clark

[scott fitlin]

Is this it

That IS it, The ONE and ONLY Eldorado!

[scott fitlin]

I was dragged to a nightclub dance floor recently (designated driver) and the 18" (I think) Yamaha subs were unbearable. Maybe the current JBL's are still better than the competition...

Thanks, Clark

Stuff made specifically for dance clubs these days is the worst crap available, IMHO!

I would think JBL,s 2242,s are definitely better than than Yamaha.

I also think they really dont place the emphasis on what something ought to sound like, mostly because they really dont know what was the OLD NY sound.

Back in the 70,s we borrowed from other areas of SR and theater sound to make something we needed. The high efficiency stuff they used to have was incredible.

We used monstrously big speakewr cabinets to achieve SPL levels with the then available amounts of power, speaker comapnies like JBL, Altec, and a few others had high eficiency drivers, they just sounded good.

FFWD to today, they never seem to have ENOUGH power, and IMHO, clubs and concerts have just become WAYYYYY TOO LOUD! Beyond a certain SPL, it just cannot be comfortable, no matter how clean IT MAY BE! Sorry, but you just dont need a million watts to make music! Just listen to an acoustic guitar in your living room, or a drum played by a drummer anywhere, youll never find yourself saying Oh that just isnt loud enough! It will prove my point.

It was an art, even back then!

Of course, in all fairness, todays music doesnt help matters.

[Zilch]

"Eldorad," at night, apparently....

[scott fitlin]

That sign is an Artkraft-Strauss, constructed in 1973. To me, it has value.

I will be installing some modern, new LED lighting effects this winter, but, that sign stays!

Yes, Zilch, Eldorado at Night, things that go bump in the night! There was an article on us in 1977 NY magazine!

Nightime is the rightime to boogie, and bump!

[Ducatista47]

FFWD to today, they never seem to have ENOUGH power, and IMHO, clubs and concerts have just become WAYYYYY TOO LOUD! Beyond a certain SPL, it just cannot be comfortable, no matter how clean IT MAY BE! Sorry, but you just dont need a million watts to make music! Just listen to an acoustic guitar in your living room, or a drum played by a drummer anywhere, youll never find yourself saying Oh that just isnt loud enough! It will prove my point.

Singles bars - clubs - are going to stay too loud on purpose. It is designed to foster physical closeness. The idea is to have to be an inch or two away to understand what someone is saying. It is one inch from kissing her ear, and that is what the establishments want.

Concerts wake up to reality, get quieter and then gradually get "SPL Creep" back up to insane, unhealthy levels. That has been going on since the sixties, at least. I won't go to any live venue without earplugs handy unless caught by surprise.

Clark