For all those more knowledgable than myself how does the 2215H compare to the 2235H? Which one has better base? Do they cross at about the same frequency? Which one is better suited for a L300 clone I am thinking about?
Thanks for the help
Mb
For all those more knowledgable than myself how does the 2215H compare to the 2235H? Which one has better base? Do they cross at about the same frequency? Which one is better suited for a L300 clone I am thinking about?
Thanks for the help
Mb
Restoring the legend, one cabinet at a time
There is no comparison, the 2235 will blow the 2215 away. Deeper bass. and lower distortion in a smaller cabinet.Originally Posted by mbottz
slxrti
The 2235 would be the best choice for an L300 clone. The 2235 can be used higher,up to 1K than the 2215H and it goes lower as well. The recommended replacement for the 2215H, that could be crossed higher and give a similar low end response, would be the 2234. The 2234 is a 2235 without the mass ring.
Rob
Absolutely!
As has been said above, the LE15A/2215 doesn't have quite the extended deep bass as the 2235H... I personally think that both woofers shouldn't be used above 500Hz, but since JBL has done it numerous times who am I to bring up physics and sound quality...
The LE15A/2215 has a different sound than the 2235H and some people prefer it, that said the 2235H was designed years later and is generally considered an improvement in virtually all performance areas. The LE15A/2215 is certainly no slouch though, and the new state of the art 1500AL is much more closely related to it than the 2235H.
These plots show the added bass extension of the 2235H (green) over the LE15A/2215 and the second plot shows how the LE15A/2215 is X-max limited in the deep bass due to the suspension and probably also it's underhung design. Obviously in the early 60's the idea that digital audio with bass down to 10Hz just wasn't visible on the horizon.
Widget
Please don't holler. I had recently had come under the impression that the LE15a was the same magnet structure and under hung like the E145. I guess what I've actually been seeing is LE15H. Is that the same except with the new magnet structure and under hung instead of overhung? If that is the case is a K145 overhung or underhung and I'm guessing that probably E145 kits don't belong in K145 frames? I was under the impression that when the Le15A came out 15 inch speakers either had the 11 lb assy. of the D130 or the 19 lb assy of the LE15A. I'm seriously soaking in as much info as I can. I thought I new much more than I do perhaps my information was correct at one time perhaps not. any way anybody fed up with spoonfeeding me information I can appreciate that and you obviously aren't obligated to continue but anybody with the patience to continue, I appreciate it very much. I can't explain my need to know. Thank you.
Does the 135A have any potential as a subwoofer? I've listened to a pair for a couple of years and haven't been impressed. I've had an 800 Altec horn on them, I've had an Ess HEIL tweeter on them all with the 135A's just in the flair cabinets. A couple of weeks ago I stuck some EV horns on top of them that I got from a traveling company and the whole nature of the woofer seems to have changed. Befor all I had to say about it was it was cleaner and less boomier than an L100 but now I'm impressed and wondering if a different box woud do more or if this is what they have.
I am looking at the graphs and they look very close to the uneducated novice such as myself. Can you help me understand what the graph for the 2235 shows that is so much better than the 2215? Please be patient as I am only trying to learn how to interpret this data. Thanks in advance for all the help.Absolutely!
As has been said above, the LE15A/2215 doesn't have quite the extended deep bass as the 2235H... I personally think that both woofers shouldn't be used above 500Hz, but since JBL has done it numerous times who am I to bring up physics and sound quality...
The LE15A/2215 has a different sound than the 2235H and some people prefer it, that said the 2235H was designed years later and is generally considered an improvement in virtually all performance areas. The LE15A/2215 is certainly no slouch though, and the new state of the art 1500AL is much more closely related to it than the 2235H.
These plots show the added bass extension of the 2235H (green) over the LE15A/2215 and the second plot shows how the LE15A/2215 is X-max limited in the deep bass due to the suspension and probably also it's underhung design. Obviously in the early 60's the idea that digital audio with bass down to 10Hz just wasn't visible on the horizon.
Widget
Thanks
Mb
Restoring the legend, one cabinet at a time
If you compare the response at 30Hz you'll see that the 2235 has 3dB greater output... this is not trivial. Playing music with deep bass you would hear this as a profound difference.
Looking at the max SPL graph, you'll see that the 2235 is capable of a full 6 dB greater output at 40Hz... What this means is that if you add bass boost you will hit the maximum before distortion a full six dB earlier with the LE15A. The importance of this is that if you were to take the LE15A and add EQ to get deeper bass, you can see that even adding this boost, the capabilities of the LE15A are significantly below that of the 2235H at lower frequencies. Depending on your application, room size, musical taste, SPL demands, etc.... the LE15A/2215 may be just fine... I used them for years and really liked them... I liked the 2235Hs better, and the 1500ALs better still... though for my application I did need to use bass boost with the 1500ALs.
Widget
To add to what Widget said, even if the 2215/LE15 could take the power, it would require 4 times the amount required by the 2235 to achieve the same volume at 40hz.
Edit: Actually, looking at the graphs, the amplitude response of the 2215/LE15 is only 3db down at 40hz, so it would only take twice the power of the 2235 to reach the same volume ay 40hz, but it looks like it can only handle 1/4 the power at 40hz. 'Sorry for the confusion...
John
If you can try them both and decide for yourself. I have heard both and like them both. Like widget said the 2215 is no slouch and you might like it better. but if your goal is a L300 clone I would go with a 136-2231 or 2235H
[quote=Mr. Widget]If you compare the response at 30Hz you'll see that the 2235 has 3dB greater output... this is not trivial. Playing music with deep bass you would hear this as a profound difference.
Im' no expert but I've never been afraid to jump in when I was wrong befor why stop now. I have always understood that 3db was the difference needed for perceptable difference. That a difference of 1 or 2 db the human hearing could not perceive. So it took a doubling of the power for us to hear the difference. One other thing that has long bothered me is that every where but audio 6db is refered to as double. Is this because were looking at voltage and refering to power. If not then why is it?
Maybe you're thinking of the "Inverse Square Law"....where every doubling of distance results in 6dB drop in SPL.
To get an increase of 6dB SPL at a given distance requires four times the power. In other words 3db(double the power)+ 3dB(double the power again)= 6dB(2^2)
Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA
Please don't take this wrong but you seem to frequently have your facts a bit scrambled. There are key words, phrases and concepts there, but perhaps you need to change your reading list.
1dB is considered the minimum threshold that an average person can hear. This is for broad band white noise, but in my experiments a change in 0.5 dB can be audible in the mid band where our hearing is most sensitive.
A 3dB increase is the same as doubling the input power and is quite audible. A 10dB increase is considered to be what we perceive as "twice as loud" and it requires ten times the input power.
In any event, a fairly broad band increase of 3dB as pictured in the simulation above would be quite audible to anyone with normal hearing if playing music with deep bass content. Realize that the increase at 40Hz is also ~3dB and 40Hz is fairly common in a wide variety of music.
What Edge said...
Widget
I say we can hear 1db,2db, even .5db differences. I can on my system
Yes, mostly in the midband, but its audible.
Using the BSS 366t and it has increments in .1db steps, and it is accurate, I can hear small changes, .5db is definitely an audible change.
scottyj
This is how I have learned it: If a speaker plays 90db with 1W input you need 2W for 93db, 4W for 96db, 8W for 99db and so on.
Consider you use 100W to play a 30Hz tone at a certain level with the 2235H, then the 2215 needs 200W to do the same, and THAT is important. Consider this if the speaker only produce 86db with 1W and you want to play 110db, witch is considered the loudest passage in a Symphony orchestra.
Also remember that a 10db headroom is recommended.
How small differences it is possible to hear, I don't really know.
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