2420 vs 2445?

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, Friends,

I am wondering what your thoughts are on using 1" drivers, VS 2", for home stereo reproduction? I have a pair of 2420's which I have used in systems before, and they work very well. I have been thinking about buying some 2" 2445's, and wonder how the two will compare, sound-wise? This morning, I was perusing some threads here on LHF, and found a comment that nobody was using the large 2" drivers anymore. Is that true, and if so, why not? (Surely, SOMEbody is using such drivers!) One thing to consider, is that I never crossover horn/driver combinations to their lowest recommended crossover point, as I've found that crossing them higher, makes them sound better, and last longer, FWIW. Thanks, very much, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Paul D]

I did a comparison of the le85 to the 2441 and preffered the le85. I was thinking this may be an improvement for my L300's and I got the 2441's for cheap. My room is 12' x 22' which is kind of small for 2" drivers I was told. I was using the 2312 horn with H91 lenses for the le85's and the large defraction lense combination (I beleive this is the 2395 if my memory serves me correct).

One of the things I noticed was that the le85 blended much better with the 077. I was triamping the system and tried different crossover frequencies but could not get the 2" combination to sound the way I wanted it to. I finally sold the bigger combo and stuck with the le85's.

This is only my opinion but for my ears, the 1" drivers are smoother and are a better match for 077's in my size room. This may not be the case in larger rooms where the extra kick of the 2" drivers would be needed.

[Beowulf57]

I would also recommend the LE85/2420 for a smoother transition when mated with the 077/2405H. If you check the spec sheets here: http://www2.jblpro.com/products/vintage/, you can see that the 2420 is cleaner above 10KHz than the 2445J. The 2441 looks not too bad and the 2440 dies above 10KHz. With an 8KHz crossover for the 077, I would expect one would like a clean response out to an octave above.

[Rolf]

For some time ago I also considered changing from 2420 to 244x in my 4343's (B). The recommendation from those more learned than I was: NO ... don't.

The reason for my thought was that in one of my earlier JBL's (Paragon) used that driver.

So I agree with Paul D and Beowolf57

[Mr. Widget]

You're all wrong.

Seriously,... you are all wrong.
It is quite possible that in your personal experience you were not able to get a large format driver and it's horn to work in your system, but there is no inherent reason why the larger driver with the correct horn can be used in any room of any size and be made to mate as seamlessly with a tweeter as the LE85/2420 does.

The benefit of the large driver is that it has far lower distortion than the smaller drivers and when mated to the correct horn will play down below 1000Hz far better than the 1" drivers do. In a properly set up application the 2440, 2441, 2445 etc. will have a less fatiguing sound and with the correct horn have significantly less midrange honk. (That's the technical term. )


Widget

BTW: There are many people still using large format drivers. Maybe we aren't hearing from them because their systems are working so well they are too busy enjoying them to post here.

[vernb]

You're all wrong.

Seriously,... you are all wrong.
It is quite possible that in your personal experience you were not able to get a large format driver and it's horn to work in your system, but there is no inherent reason why the larger driver with the correct horn can be used in any room of any size and be made to mate as seamlessly with a tweeter as the LE85/2420 does.

The benefit of the large driver is that it has far lower distortion than the smaller drivers and when mated to the correct horn will play down below 1000Hz far better than the 1" drivers do. In a properly set up application the 2440, 2441, 2445 etc. will have a less fatiguing sound and with the correct horn have significantly less midrange honk. (That's the technical term....

Hi Widget
Could you tell us if a 2" driver (i.e the 2445) would need a different kind of x-over up to the 077 than a 1" (i.e the 2426) would?

I have searched high and low but cannot find any x-over layouts from people using 2445 or 2446 or 2450 for that matter.
Vern

[doodlebug]

Here's what I am using right now:

JBL 4670A theater system: 2445J along with the 3160 (500hz) crossover and a 2380 biradial horn.

Frankly, I like the sonic signature - presentation out in front of the speakers, no honking that I remember from my days selling old horns with 70s vintage solid state electronics. Compared to the UREI 813s (the Altec 604 version - 1" compression driver), they're right in there for a solid and effortless presentation. The bass bins (dual 2225s in a 4508 cabinet) could use a bit more bottom end but that's been discussed here before. BTW, I'm using old McIntosh tube amps or a HK Citation II tube amp to drive them.

This is my first experience with a 2" throat driver so there's limited experience involved here in terms of comparisons with other alternatives. There are folks faaaaar more experienced in this aspect. I'm just having fun with the things - and enjoying it.

As for crossovers to reference, there's a good instruction manual for the Professional Series of crossovers over in the Lansing Library that has the 3160/3150/3110 hookup information. I've got a hardcopy of the 3160 schematic but can't seem to find the original scanned in copy. I think its in the Library, too.

Hope that helps a bit.

Cheers,

David

[Mr. Widget]

Hi Widget
Could you tell us if a 2" driver (i.e the 2445) would need a different kind of x-over up to the 077 than a 1" (i.e the 2426) would?

I am not a fan of the plug and play crossovers. I do not think a 3106 or whatever is a one size fits all solution. Essentially what I am saying is that every horn/driver system combo really needs a unique crossover to get the most from a particular system. You can try a stock network like the 3106, but don't expect the highest level of performance from it.


Widget

[4313B]

I am wondering what your thoughts are on using 1" drivers, VS 2", for home stereo reproduction?

If you can afford the 2" throat drivers then use them. The 4-inch diaphragmed compression drivers consistently trump their smaller siblings.

You're all wrong.

Seriously,... you are all wrong.

I find it rather disappointing that one cannot bolt a 2441 into a 4344/4345 or a 476Be into a K2-S9800.

I am not a fan of the plug and play crossovers.

They were a product of their time. As you already know, JBL was pretty weak in filter design back then. Other companies were doing alot better with filter design and that is why they were able to get away with cheaper transducers in their offerings.

[cooky1257]

If you can afford the 2" throat drivers then use them. The 4-inch diaphragmed compression drivers consistently trump their smaller siblings.
I find it rather disappointing that one cannot bolt a 2441 into a 4344/4345 or a 476Be into a K2-S9800.
They were a product of their time. As you already know, JBL was pretty weak in filter design back then. Other companies were doing alot better with filter design and that is why they were able to get away with cheaper transducers in their offerings.

Eh, I'm so glad you two guys posted. I've read this thread earlier today and have been sitting in my listening room getting blown away by some old Motown (Thank you by Gladys Knight in particular) over my JBL's thinking (cue echoey voice) "am I missing something here?, am I deaf? 'cos these 2441's sound amazing to me"
And relax
Cooky

[4313B]

'cos these 2441's sound amazing to me"

My gripe with the 376/2441 is its weight.

Even on that dubious 2311 the 2441 with the cc network sounds really good, lol.

The LE175, LE85 and their peers aren't "bad" drivers at all. The 4-inch diaphragm drivers are simply better. Why shouldn't they be.

[doodlebug]

I am not a fan of the plug and play crossovers. I do not think a 3106 or whatever is a one size fits all solution. Essentially what I am saying is that every horn/driver system combo really needs a unique crossover to get the most from a particular system. You can try a stock network like the 3106, but don't expect the highest level of performance from it.


Widget

Understand that, Widget, but they're just sitting there and came with the whole package so can't fault that. Perhaps I'll be able to go bi-amping with the setup, which should be lots of fun but extra work, which I'm not able to do right now. Our OP wanted to know if folks were using big drivers so just chimed in.

Cheers,

David

[Beowulf57]

You're all wrong.

Seriously,... you are all wrong. )


Widget

oops...sorry, I'm all wrong. Fools walk in where wise men fear to tread and I've no experience with the 2" compression drivers. Time to exit gracefully.

Cheers,

Beowulf57

[Paul D]

Geez, after reading all of this, maybe I should revisit the idea of experimenting with larger compression drivers!

My system has evolved toward a quasi DIY version of the 4343. My question is - would it be worth while to use a 2441 or similar between a 2123 and an 077 and what would be the smoothest horn to use?

[speakerdave]

. . . . My system has evolved toward a quasi DIY version of the 4343. My question is - would it be worth while to use a 2441 or similar between a 2123 and an 077 and what would be the smoothest horn to use?

I've used the 2450 with a 2450SL (aquaplased) diaphragm in a similar situation using stock crossovers and the 2311. Would have used the 2441 (with the 2450sl diaphragm) but there is not room enough around the 2122 dog box. The combination of the 2441 throat and the 2311 is very close to the 2307 plus 2421 throat. Using another horn you may get into crossover purgatory on the way to audio nirvana.

David