Dumb thought: Anyone ever compared an L7 and an L300 side-by-side?

[BMWCCA]

I know; it's a dumb question undeserving of an answer from this erudite forum. Though I've made my intention clear to buy an L300 pair or a 43xx equivalent or better as a house-warming present to myself whenever I build my family the new house I've been promising for a little over a decade. Doesn't seem to be any real hurry since they all seem to be leaving home if I wait long enough.

But in listening to a new purchase tonight:

I just have to ask. Has anyone compared the lowly L7 to an L300 Summit side-by-side using the same system to compare the sound? What I'm saying is that the L7 continues to floor me, but I've lusted in my heart for an L300 since they first came out. I've just got to know how they compare. Double-bass and cello sound superb on the L7s. how much better should I expect the L300 to make the music sound?

Oh yeah, and by-the-way the CD is great. I saw Rushad Eggleston play cello with Darol Anger once and I was hooked.

[Doc Mark]

Hey, BMWCCA,

Just time for a few thoughts before bed. I just finished sitting on the couch, in the dark, listening to a couple of my most favorite tunes from the Boz Scaggs CD, "Dig". "I Just Go", which has an old band mate of mine, Nathan East, on bass; "Desire", with its great, very low, synth bass; "Vanishing Point", which has a catchy little rhythm line that I can't get out of my head; and, "Thanks To You", again with some neat low bass, and a laid back beat that just sucks you in. I purposely kept the volume down low, as it's late here, and in the mountains, sound travels easily up and down the canyons and draws. Don't want to annoy anyone who is trying to sleep!!

My main point is to tell you how very good the L300's sounded, even at low volume! The bass was all there, and all the detail was crisp and very well defined, on every song. I've never heard L7's, and so cannot comment on how they sound. But, I am flat-out ASTOUNDED that the L300's can sound as rich and wonderful as they do!!! They sound this way at low volume, or cranked up. Same wonderful, open, clear, and rich sound. I would describe it as "effortless", I guess. If we lived closer together, I'd suggest planning a get together, so we could enjoy listening to both systems. I'm certain that the L7's are great speakers, of you would not like them, I'm sure. But, I cannot speak highly enough about the L300's!! Yes, yes, I know that they have some "warts". But, in point of fact, when I listen to them, I don't hear a single one of them! They are, simply put, fantastic, as far as I'm concerned!! For what it's worth...... Past time for bed, so I'm off. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[BMWCCA]

Thanks Doc. It's partially your thread on your experiences with your new L300s that has me asking the question. We know the Summits are iconic JBLs (no pun intended; well, maybe) and I've followed your enthusiasm as well as others decrying some warts. We've had the warts and placement issues with L7s well-documented here, too. I've always owned 15" JBLs, albeit they are the quick and light D130's in two-way systems, but there is something about those fifteen-inchers that bring me right into the music. And yet it's the incredible imaging of the big black towers that continues to astound me and their ability to blend four drivers into a seamless soundstage no matter where they or I stand. I've always assumed the bottom-end performance of the L300 and their ilk would blow the L7 away but then I grew up with 030 systems so what do I know about low bass anyway? The L7 seems to cover that segment pretty well, to my jaded ears.

So, is there anyone who's actually had the opportunity to audition the L300 and the L7 in the same room, with the same system, at the same time?

So, do I have to drag those big towers to Heather's house to compare? Even that wouldn't be fair since she's hot-rodded hers and isn't running internal crossovers with one amp. And, in fairness to the L7s, I have enough amps to bi-amp them but haven't felt the need.

I said it was a dumb question and I'm not asking to upset the conventional wisdom on this site or to obtain consensual validation for what I own over what I covet. I'd just like to know. I'm already pretty sure the L300 can't be ten times the system the L7 is based on current selling prices, and that's not the issue, either. What price we pay for incremental improvements that please our ears and make us smile isn't up for question or we'd all be listening to L26s . . . which should be showing up today, as a matter of fact.

I'm patient. Certainly some one among you must have had this experience or opportunity. Possibly that person is a one-time JBL associate. Was there ever a standard base-line system against which JBL new-product development teams compared their new creations? Ears over instruments?

[hjames]

Well, my short horn L200s do have updated crossovers (g's 3133 equivs) but are running in standard amp (not biamp) mode upstairs. They aren't L-300s but they are close ...

The 4341s are the biamp units, but I can externally put them back into "standard" mode for single amp input ... or with a strong back we could haul them upstairs for further testing ...

Our upstairs/library room is a great room to listen to speakers!

maybe we need to have an audio test day some saturday ???

Even invite Opimax ...!

So, do I have to drag those big towers to Heather's house to compare? Even that wouldn't be fair since she's hot-rodded hers and isn't running internal crossovers with one amp. And, in fairness to the L7s, I have enough amps to bi-amp them but haven't felt the need.

I said it was a dumb question and I'm not asking to upset the conventional wisdom on this site or to obtain consensual validation for what I own over what I covet. I'd just like to know. I'm already pretty sure the L300 can't be ten times the system the L7 is based on current selling prices, and that's not the issue, either. What price we pay for incremental improvements that please our ears and make us smile isn't up for question or we'd all be listening to L26s . . . which should be showing up today, as a matter of fact.

I'm patient. Certainly some one among you must have had this experience or opportunity. Possibly that person is a one-time JBL associate. Was there ever a standard base-line system against which JBL new-product development teams compared their new creations? Ears over instruments?

[BMWCCA]

And I could bring along a pair of Crown PS-400s so we can provide the same power to both and keep the sound levels equal. Or maybe just a speaker switching network and use the amp you're using now, if we can control the levels somehow. Sound level is a critical issue when using ears to evaluate two systems; louder will always sound "better". Might be fun!

[hjames]

And I could bring along a pair of Crown PS-400s so we can provide the same power to both and keep the sound levels equal. Or maybe just a speaker switching network and use the amp you're using now, if we can control the levels somehow. Sound level is a critical issue when using ears to evaluate two systems; louder will always sound "better". Might be fun!

Well, the upstairs system is running on a vintage Yamaha CR-1020 - roughly speced at 80w/ch but a genuinely nice sounding receiver.

Probably best to run the Crowns

[Fred Sanford]

I'm closer to you than Heather, and have the 4333As. Currently bi-amped, but switchable to internal x-over. I've even got them on a 4-channel Adcom, so they can be run off two and the L7s off of the two other channels. Actually, I've got an identical Adcom as a spare, plus some high quality line level switchers, so comparing would be easy.

Downsides of mine would be that my 2231s are a bit tired, and placement isn't optimal for now- they're on their sides at floor level. Tweet and lens properly rotated, but it's a compromise. Not exactly the stand-up kicked-back baffle of the L300s. Oh, yeah, and it's still a too-live room, that's actually my biggest complaint.

Room for L7s just outside the 4333As, easy, though.

Bring bagels.

je

[BMWCCA]

Ahh, the possibilities. Still hoping someone has had the opportunity to do this before. But then we can always do it ourselves. Without moving your system, the L7s would need the outboard position, out from the wall to the point of blocking the lateral throw of the 4333As just to clear the mass of the monitors and the TV for the side-firing woofer. Tough to figure out a configuration that wouldn't cause some barrier issues with one or both. I suppose both out from the wall with front baffles parallel but with the L7 on the inside is about as close as we could get and even that would upset your whole room. We'll think on it.

I can see the methodology: Blind tests at baseline. Blind test after two beers. Blind test after four beers and several Bodo's bagels. Maybe Heather could bring some of DC's finest bagels and we could kill two product evaluations with one sensory experience. She's been to Bodo's, too!

[Doc Mark]

Thanks Doc. It's partially your thread on your experiences with your new L300s that has me asking the question. We know the Summits are iconic JBLs (no pun intended; well, maybe) and I've followed your enthusiasm as well as others decrying some warts. We've had the warts and placement issues with L7s well-documented here, too. I've always owned 15" JBLs, albeit they are the quick and light D130's in two-way systems, but there is something about those fifteen-inchers that bring me right into the music. And yet it's the incredible imaging of the big black towers that continues to astound me and their ability to blend four drivers into a seamless soundstage no matter where they or I stand. I've always assumed the bottom-end performance of the L300 and their ilk would blow the L7 away but then I grew up with 030 systems so what do I know about low bass anyway? The L7 seems to cover that segment pretty well, to my jaded ears.

(snip) I'm already pretty sure the L300 can't be ten times the system the L7 is based on current selling prices, and that's not the issue, either. What price we pay for incremental improvements that please our ears and make us smile isn't up for question or we'd all be listening to L26s . . . which should be showing up today, as a matter of fact.(snip)

Morning, BWMCCA,

You are right, my Friend, I AM very taken by the L300's! But, then again, I've lusted after a pair since I first heard them, back in the 1970's, so finally getting my own L300's is something in which I'm taking vast pleasure!

That having been said, just as you wrote, it's quite easy to read all the glowing comments that many here at LH offer about the 4345's, and wonder if I should try for a pair of them!!! Then, just like last night, I sit down and spend some time with my L300's, and say, "Nah, I like these, just fine"!!

I'm willing to bet that you would be impressed by having a good JBL 15 in your system. But, if you already like the L7's, as they do offer some things that the L300's don't, in the way of imaging, and in being a 4-way design, why not just add two 15's as subwoofers, biamp the lot, and call it good?

As much as I dearly love JBL systems, I'm coming to 59 years old, soon, and I now realize that time is moving along, and that space and resources do not, and very probably will never, allow me to have ALL the JBL systems I covet!! So, I'm really quite happy, and more than a little satisfied, with the goodies I have on hand, right now. Plenty of components for experimentation on the "big systems", and a few extra goodies, like the L19's I got a while back (they have warts, but sound very nice, despite them...), or my old 4408's, which are in need of a JBL recone. I'd still love to get a pair of medium monitors, someday, but have come to the realization that I may well never do so.

Probably the last comment I could offer is that this is all supposed to be fun! So, having said that, why NOT make a date to compare your L7's with Heather's L200's, or Fred's 4333A's, or BOTH?? Sounds like it would be fun, no matter what you decide to do after that. And, it's the fun of it all that makes us keep coming back to the JBL table for more, even after we're "full", eh??!!

I very much look forward to hearing how all this turns out for you! Have fun, take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[SEAWOLF97]

Phil

My answer doesnt have too much to do with sound quality. I have heard the L7's demoed and they sounded great, tho I didnt like the burnt ash vinyl cladding or general looks. I know you are a collector and enjoy classic, beautiful items (BMW's)

Member Soundboy and I had discussions about your question ( substitute 250ti for L7) ...
.he called the L300 a "'59 Cadillac" ...big, flashy , fun to cruise around for a while, but tiring in everyday life. He has heard both and like others here, had said the L300 is 1970's technology and if that is what you want, then go for it.

Maybe the L300's are just something you have always wanted, but could'nt swing for until now ? I'm having trouble believing that they sound $2k/3k/4k better than the L7's.

Not trying to flame anyone with L300's, maybe just trying to slow the bandwagon a bit.

[Doc Mark]

Hey, SeaWolf,

You make a very good point, and it's well taken. I have said before that I most certainly am not offended by the fact that some don't care for the L300 sound. Doesn't bother me one bit. For me, they are perfect. Yes, they are 1970's technology, but hey, "I'm" late 1940's technology, and I kind of like that!! Maybe someday, I'll "tire" of horn technology, and move on to something else, maybe even the L250Ti's. But, until the day comes that I decide the L300's, and their ilk, are no longer my cup of tea, I'll keep right on enjoying them. Others make different choices, and I say, "Outstanding! Go with what trips your trigger; whichever way your stick floats; or whatever blows up your skirt"!! That's what makes all this so very enjoyable!! Thanks, for your thoughts, and I agree, 100%. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[hjames]

Only problem with L-300s is they are hard for bottom feeders to get them!
I kinda cobbled my L-200-plus clones together by scrounging over time, but certainly wouldn't have bought L300s if it meant dropping $3000-4000 for them at the time ... (but thats just me!)

But $500-1000 speakers?? Sure! Much easier to justify ...

Of course its really hard to find more modern affordable JBLs outside the plastic wood cabinets ... black ash or faux cherry!

Phil

My answer doesnt have too much to do with sound quality. I have heard the L7's demoed and they sounded great, tho I didnt like the burnt ash vinyl cladding or general looks. I know you are a collector and enjoy classic, beautiful items (BMW's)

Member Soundboy and I had discussions about your question ( substitute 250ti for L7) ...
.he called the L300 a "'59 Cadillac" ...big, flashy , fun to cruise around for a while, but tiring in everyday life. He has heard both and like others here, had said the L300 is 1970's technology and if that is what you want, then go for it.

Maybe the L300's are just something you have always wanted, but could'nt swing for until now ? I'm having trouble believing that they sound $2k/3k/4k better than the L7's.

Not trying to flame anyone with L300's, maybe just trying to slow the bandwagon a bit.

[BMWCCA]

Member Soundboy and I had discussions about your question ( substitute 250ti for L7) ...

Yeah, I suppose if I had a good pair of JBLs with that fine 14", I'd not be bothering asking such questions myself. So now we need to find an L250 or 250ti pair in the area. to compare the L7 with, too. Opimax? Got 'em ready yet?

Whatever black membrane JBL coated the L's with doesn't bother me. There's probably as much real wood in there as in my fifty-year-old C37s!

NP: Jennifer Warnes - Famouse Blue Raincoat - 20th Anniv edition

One of my favorites. I have the original. Is the 20th Anniversary edition a real improvement? The old one's actually in the changer in the BMW even as we speak. "First we take Manhattan . . . " Oh heck, I see they've added four tracks! What's your review. (Way to take my own post thread off-topic!)

[SEAWOLF97]

Yeah, I suppose if I had a good pair of JBLs with that fine 14", I'd not be bothering asking such questions myself. So now we need to find an L250 or 250ti pair in the area. to compare the L7 with, too. Opimax? Got 'em ready yet?

Actually I'm not trying to promote the L250/250ti's to you. They are an acquired taste, I think, and the styling isnt for everybody. Yes, I like mine. TD has pointed out also why they arent for him.

14's or not, they are still being augmented with a sub.

Are they better than my big Walsh's ? yes , maybe 15-20%, is that enough to justify $2k ? not sure. I talked with Marty (JBLCanuk) who had both 4343's and the 250ti's side by side and he said (plse correct me if I'm wrong, Marty) that "sometimes the 250's can sound better" and "sometimes the 4343's horns can be a little too much in a home environment"

I'm seeing L300's go for insane prices lately..if you find a deal , Phil , and have the disposable cash...go for it....if you buy well, you can get your money back even if they dont work out for you.

[Chas]

I find it ironic sometimes, when I think about possibly upgrading speakers someday, I realise that about 75% of the music I listen to was recorded on monitors that well predate my 4345's!

It kinda puts things into a different perpective.