Just wanted to post this. I found it very insightful of the state of mind in the industry at the time. I would also love to see some rebutal by owners in the forum. I will attach lower res scans. There is an alternate view included.
Rob
Just wanted to post this. I found it very insightful of the state of mind in the industry at the time. I would also love to see some rebutal by owners in the forum. I will attach lower res scans. There is an alternate view included.
Rob
I've only listened to the 250s a few times, but I remember the first time at the Reno CC around '86~'87 I just stopped in the vestibule where they were setup. I just stood there for 10~15 minutes, thinking "If I didn't already own the L212 system I'd buy the 250Ti right then and there." But thought the better of it for TWF. As it turned out I should have bought the 250s.
As for the reviews above, all I can say is that we all have different hearing. And if that wasn't true there would not exist today htib trash speakers.
I'll take upper end JBLs any day!
Fascinating. I am wondering if this review affected the design of the XPL-200. "They want midrange? Give em some midrange!"
His review is pretty absurd from my perspective. And of course we all know he's about five years too late with the comment about the bypass capacitors. I've extensive experience with the 250Ti in a plethora of situations and he's completely missed the boat on pretty much the entire system. At least he got the top end response right. His listening room must really suck though. I've heard 250Ti's in less than decent settings and they are merely adequate in those situations.
Was the 250Ti a sales/ marketing success though?
Ian
I reckon perhaps not. By that time I think people were really concerned about peer pressure and rag reviews so they tended to gravitate towards the "loudspeaker of the week". I knew a few folks in JBL Marketing quite well at that time and they were having a hard time of it.
Perhaps it was more so perception of the dealers.
I recall the brochures etc were great but not many dealers stocked JBL out here and they were very expensive.Except for one dealer here in Melbourne who had a pair of 250's and was and is more a American west coast scene, infinity kappas, Klilpsch.
Everyone else was pushing Dynaudio's and similar stuff with Duntech the top end, then cd arrived and the wheels fell of the whole hi end thing.
So the market peneration for JBL was more a splinter.
Ian
I wonder, what would have happened if JBL had have used the 104H2 mid instead of the 104H, in the 250Ti? IMHO, those treated-paper cone mids did much more toward the "midrange liveliness" goal than the poly cones ever did, even though the JBL poly cones were LEAGUES better than most other plastic cone driver built...
I'm planning a loose clone of the 250Ti, using a 2235H, 2118H, 104H and 035Ti, sometime. It'll be interesting to put this theory espoused above, to the test...
Regards,
Gordon.
Yep,
My idea too Gordon,
Shake and bake and see what happens..seen Robs diy 4 way XP 200?
Ian
Hmmm, it looks to me like someone's forgotten to clean their ears for a decade or two. Or maybe they did, but cleaned too deep and wiped out the inner ear and irreparably damaged their brains listening centre...At about the same time, middle 80's, there was a review in a german hi-fi magazine, "Stereo" I think it's called, and the 250ti was voted something like the best speaker ever.
About the midrange liveliness, should this not be blamed on the 108H too and not only the 104H?
In any way, I have the crossovers set up as the number two reviewer and I find the midrange full of life. It doesnt matter if it's a violin, Whitney Houston or Angus Young's guitar, it's almost like You can reach out and touch them...
B.R: Jakob
Its too bad that the average person looking to buy speakers can't think for themselves. I bought the L212 in '79 and first heard the 250 in '87. I never saw either brochures until I saw them online in this millenium. And never read a review on either. But I knew from the moments I heard both of these speakers they were better than most, and still are, despite 'improvements' in speaker technology.Originally Posted by Giskard
And I suspect that neither one was a very big seller, in part, because of their fairly high price tags. Most people I know NOW don't want to spend that much for 5 channels, much less back then for only 2 channels. And today some people still make no sense in their purchases; spend a large sum on a large screen tv and then buy a htib crap speaker/receiver system. They're missing half the fun!
I don't blame anything on either one of them. They're both just fine as they are.
Yeah, I think you have some pretty nice components and if you ever feel you need to play around you should be able to do quite a bit with crossover mods/changes.There seems to be two types of people. One type simply won't spend so much money on something like an L212 or 250Ti. The other type simply won't spend so little money on something like an L212 or 250Ti.Hopefully the K2-S9800 is sufficiently overpriced that it will sell reasonably well to the second type.
Well, JGH did have some nice things to say about the Titanium drivers, so I can't be too mad at him.
(gently please)
He did of course come off sounding like somewhat of a prig then, but 17 years later, he still found a lot of good things to say about Titanium, and he clearly liked another JBL product.
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/31/
I've had three chances to purchase 250Ti pairs and passed on all of them, even at absurdly low prices. I'm not sure why. I liked them, maybe even loved them, but didn't get that blind passion that usually drives a purchase for me. Perhaps it was the set up, the amps, the source material, the environment. I just wasn't going to load the monsters up and take them home, endure the (at the time) WAF, only to find out I couldn't really get my fix from them.
I'm still tempted from time to time to get a pair, but with my current set up, I have to say I'd be lowering my expectations for nostalgia's sake. My L100s, SVA1800s, L5s, and L7s get to stay for nostalgia's sake because they've been in the family a long time, and when they were puchased, the blind passion and desire were there.
I think my next fix will be quite costly. Maybe even that "sufficiently overpriced" speaker Giskard mentions or the Revel Ultima Salons.
Out.
I have to draw the line somewhere, unfortunately.
Paying $1500 for the L212 3 piece system in '79 is one thing, but over $12K for just ONE K2-S9800 today is quite a bit more than inflation of the last quarter century. Even if the K2 is miles of improvement over the rest.
Of coarse, I could sell my house for big bucks, then move to the Elko area, buy a place for cash and have money left over for a couple of K2s.
The problem with that is I don't think there is a whole lot of work in Elko.
Yep, and also... I mean, SEVERAL people on THIS VERY BOARD have mentioned the relative lack of midbass/midrange "whack"/attack of the 250Ti, compared to say, the 4343 or 4435. Why would we fault Holt for mentioning the same reservations, in effect? Really, now... he can't really be faulted for wanting BETTER midrange dynamics, can he??
And I will say this- despite everything, at least he DID give the speaker a relatively fair chance. Most hi-fi mags would have simply turned up their noses at a so-called "Junk But Loud" speaker, in that era...
Regards,
Gordon.
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